Lorien contracts and IR35 at a well known bank.

[WordIsBond]

Not really, the contractors came in and, over a coffee, ask a question relating to the flexibility of Lorien and adjusting contracts in light of ir35. I need the resource, the company needs the resource and I don't want to pay Accenture rates for idiots in suits.

These contractors will just avoid the contract if ir35 is an issue. There's lots of work out there at the moment and resource is hard to find.

As contractors, you and tarbera may choose to stick your head up your arse and pretend that a few business cards and a website will protect you from HMRC but what is more likely is procurers (me) understanding how to manage my suppliers (you) in such a manner that there is no issue.

I tend to set up teams which are all contractors, give them a task to do and let them deliver it. Usually works. The alternative Accenture (other expensive alternatives are available) usually require hand-holding and deliver **** all.

And - make no mistake the UK finance industry would be ****ed without contractors.

Unfortunately too many people live in their own little world and don't look at things from someone else's perspective.

Really good contractors can be hard to find. I was on the other side, where you are now, for decades. More than once I had conversations where guys told me they wouldn't take the contract if we were going to do stuff that would drag them into IR35. I know exactly where you are coming from here.

If the brilliant commentariat on here knew what they were about, they'd know that clients are going to be caring very much about IR35 within two years. They'd know that it is going to be financially advantageous to both contractors and clients to have contracts be outside IR35. And they'd be putting together a checklist for clients now, of things to do and not to do, to help keep contracts outside. Instead of sniping at a client who's ahead of the game, they'd be looking to help him help them. Duh.

[MrButton]

It’s much more important for the op to understand what outside IR35 working practices are.

Not if a contract (nobody here knows the exact content) is outside.

These contractors just sound a little naive.

[malvolio]

Which is why I posted the link to IPSE's Guide to IR35. Although it's written from the contractor perspective, it will cover all the things someone smart like the OP will need to understand and apply in our brave new world.

[northernladuk]

These contractors just sound a little naive.

And there is a lot of 'em.

[ConfusedEasily]

Which is why I posted the link to IPSE's Guide to IR35. Although it's written from the contractor perspective, it will cover all the things someone smart like the OP will need to understand and apply in our brave new world.

Makes bloody interesting reading. Thanks.

[tarbera]

ohh

Disclaimer - I'm not a contractor anymore.

I have two new contractors starting, through Lorien, both of whom are asking if Lorien contracts (with a well known Bank) are IR35 compliant. I've pointed them at QDOS.

In the meantime, does anyone have any experience of Lorien contracts? Are they IR35 aware? Will I be facing future battles to secure Contractors who are more IR35 aware?

Legal, just roll their eyes and mutter HMRC, w**k*rs, worse than Putin, no idea of the law etc., then tell me that Contractors have no right as employees etc. and I should stop worrying. It's not my worries I'm worried about, it's contractors who choose not to sign on the basis of useless contracts. We're f***ed without contractors.

ohh almost forgot, remember to tell them about RBS enforced furloughs and they will be stopping for xmas on the 7th december in 2018

[Mag]

Are you really sure about that?

Yes.

Start time, lunch time, finish time.

Holiday entitlement, sickness procedure, time off in lieu.

It was basically an 'employee handbook'.

If you're a contractor and you would sign and agree to sign such a document, then you're a bit of a helmet really.

[ConfusedEasily]

ohh almost forgot, remember to tell them about RBS enforced furloughs and they will be stopping for xmas on the 7th december in 2018

RBS? Who mentioned that august institution The furloughs is insane. A lot of places are doing this now and you know why? Because permies do **** all during this period. In some offices, decorations were up on the 1st December. It's a tacit admission that many permies just treat December as an excuse to arse about.
We send the contractors home because it's embarrassing to have them around seeing the ****wittery of a lot of our permanent staff.

in another bank (run by shopkeepers) some contractors refused the furlough as it wasn't in their contract and they had deadlines to deliver to. Result? Walked off-site.

[northernladuk]

RBS? Who mentioned that august institution The furloughs is insane. A lot of places are doing this now and you know why? Because permies do **** all during this period. In some offices, decorations were up on the 1st December. It's a tacit admission that many permies just treat December as an excuse to arse about.
We send the contractors home because it's embarrassing to have them around seeing the ****wittery of a lot of our permanent staff.

Nothing to do with change freezes and service protection in high volume periods.

in another bank (run by shopkeepers) some contractors refused the furlough as it wasn't in their contract and they had deadlines to deliver to. Result? Walked off-site.

It is in their contracts. They get paid by the day. If there is client doesn't require them to work they don't work. Just like when they want to take a holiday.

Not sure if it's them or you that's the bigger idiot.. but I do really.

[ConfusedEasily]

Nothing to do with change freezes and service protection in high volume periods.


It is in their contracts. They get paid by the day. If there is client doesn't require them to work they don't work. Just like when they want to take a holiday.

Not sure if it's them or you that's the bigger idiot.. but I do really.

Not everyone works in areas where change freezes are applicable - the furlough is a means of competing on rate whilst skimming a few weeks out of the year. It is irritating from a delivery perspective and we will not be doing it in 2018 in our area. The two contractors who have just signed will not have to endure a furlough.