Chasing first contract

[BrilloPad]

"this ought to be a place for contractors to share their wealth of knowledge and experience" - you say that after 5 posts! If you don't like it here go elsewhere.

Posters on CUK get a bit tired of being expected to sugar coat everything. Of posters not doing any research before posting. Of posters playing "shoot the messenger".

Mal and I have had many disagreements in the past. And I hate to agree with him. However he is spot on. You should listen and learn.

[purple banana]

My comments were not aimed at yourself, I appreciate you taking the time to give me your take on the questions I asked.

I do not wish for anything to be sugar coated, only that the answers given are in relation to the original post - not going off in another direction trying to gauge what my earnings would be and decide for me whether I should do it or not. - Especially when those assertions turned out to be based on a number of assumptions about my current and future circumstances that malvolio is in absolutely no position to predict.

Finally, as someone with only 5 posts, my opinion on the reception I and other newbies have received is more valid than any of the other posters here could offer.

There's an old saying I would paraphrase - If people have nothing nice - or relevant - to say, then they shouldn't say it.

[malvolio]

My comments were not aimed at yourself, I appreciate you taking the time to give me your take on the questions I asked.

I do not wish for anything to be sugar coated, only that the answers given are in relation to the original post - not going off in another direction trying to gauge what my earnings would be and decide for me whether I should do it or not. - Especially when those assertions turned out to be based on a number of assumptions about my current and future circumstances that malvolio is in absolutely no position to predict.

Finally, as someone with only 5 posts, my opinion on the reception I and other newbies have received is more valid than any of the other posters here could offer.

There's an old saying I would paraphrase - If you've nothing nice - or relevant - to say, then don't say it.

OK, here's something relevant. You're making a mistake believing your own figures against experienced reality, and what role the agency plays in your future life. And I've not only had over 20 years senior contracting experience, mostly in programme management and architecture roles, I've hired (and fired) a lot of contractors, delivered multi-million pound projects to time and budget and worked closely with several recruitment agencies as well as other interested parties like REC and the Cabinet Office; my numbers are not theoretical even if they are generalisations. The aim (as I have also said many times) is not to be all superior - like I need that with my history compared to yours - but to test that you fully understand the risks your new career contains and that you properly understand them. So far, you seem to me to fail that test.

But if your analytical skills are so superior to mine, then you carry on: you may be one of the lucky ones that finds continuous employment. However you won't be if you don't learn to listen.

HTH. BIDI.

[BrilloPad]

My comments were not aimed at yourself, I appreciate you taking the time to give me your take on the questions I asked.

I do not wish for anything to be sugar coated, only that the answers given are in relation to the original post - not going off in another direction trying to gauge what my earnings would be and decide for me whether I should do it or not. - Especially when those assertions turned out to be based on a number of assumptions about my current and future circumstances that malvolio is in absolutely no position to predict.

Finally, as someone with only 5 posts, my opinion on the reception I and other newbies have received is more valid than any of the other posters here could offer.

There's an old saying I would paraphrase - If you've nothing nice - or relevant - to say, then don't say it.

Understood. And I hope you appreciate my reply was to help you too!

"those assertions turned out to be based on a number of assumptions about my current and future circumstances" - no-one can predict what will happen. A warchest tends to be key. Live as frugally as you can.

Some of the best posters on professional forums ignore new posters. There is a thread somewhere by a moderator saying that people can be very robust in professional forums. People here have actually been nice! Try posting an opinion in general and watch what happens. Its a bear pit.

Finally remember that it is not your forum or my forum it is a private site. Admin determines the "rules" and regularly changes them. The mods are the enforcers. They do not like being challenged, nor having to do work.

About 1 in 3 posts in professional is useful. In general it is more like 1 in 30.

Anyway, at least you got some advice. I wish you all the very best for the future.

And maybe see you in general.....

[fatboyslim]

Thanks to all for the constructive feedback received so far. However I find it a real shame there is such negativity thrown around by posters with thousands of posts to their name. Considering this ought to be a place for contractors to share their wealth of knowledge and experience - I can only assume they are frightened of the competition and frequent here to scare newbies away rather than offer any support or encouragement??

As I mentioned in my OP, I am a data analyst by trade, and knocking up a calculator for plugging these sorts of number into was one of my first ports of call when I started weighing this option up. Not to mention the wealth of online information & calculators available on this site and others.

Whilst I appreciate malvolio's "dose of reality" - this is no more representative than suggesting I might never get that first contract, therefore my earnings are £0, or I might land a contract that get's extended indefinitely. A good contractor friend of mine is currently knocking on 3-years into a 3 month contract.

I have done my own sums and a £350/day contract - even inside IR35 - a conservative 200 billable days and knowing what my expenses will be comes out at £3311 take-home per month. A far cry from the £2276 I currently receive as a permie. To suggest this increase in take-home is negligible or not worth pursuing is frankly ridiculous.

In fact, to break-even and match my current take-home would require billing for just 130 days - funnily enough about 6 months - coincidentally the length of that first contract I was going for.

So forgive me if I take advice along these lines with a whole vat of salt!

I will go against the wisdom of veterans and say do go ahead and go contracting. UK is among the richest country in the world with sound social security, what's the worse that can happen to you... a temporary setback in earning? You wont die of hunger and disease, right?
I would encourage everybody to try it at least once, its not going to be end of the world if you don't succeed.
To paraphrase a gay proverb, 'how will you know if you have never tried'?

btw your number checks out, welcome to forum from another newbie. A small unsolicited advice: please ignore the posts that offend you, this will increase positivity in the forum.
Considering this is the number 1 contractor forum, the traffic and post count is appalling, a forum cant survive with such little interaction, it will go stale. Its theoretically possible to have a giant FAQ where people can read everything and need not ask anything, but that will destroy the forum and human interaction. This is is against interest of forum owner or webmaster whose interest is in bringing traffic and new members.

Note to my future self:
1. do not post offending stupid one liner when genuine advice is solicited.
2. do not fight with new members who many not know things I already know
3. Try to resist the urge in proving myself a smart alec, it feels good for a minute, but everybody will hate me including myself later.
4. Don't mention the 'br*xit'

[purple banana]

OK, here's something relevant.

You're missing the point, it is still not relevant to my original questions - which were specifically about the behaviour of the agency.

I have no interest in getting into a urination contest with you about who has got the most experience, I couldn't give a monkeys. In 20 years I might have enough experience to lord it over newbies too, although I rather think I'll have more class than that.

[malvolio]

You're missing the point, it is still not relevant to my original questions - which were specifically about the behaviour of the agency.

I have no interest in getting into a urination contest with you about who has got the most experience, I couldn't give a monkeys. In 20 years I might have enough experience to lord it over newbies too, although I rather think I'll have more class than that.

We answered that question: agents are merely a means to an end. They are not your friend, your customer or anything else, and you to them are simply a line of income that deserves and usually gets zero respect or courtesy. And you won't ever be dealing with the decision makers, only with the lowest level of their employees. Check out their LinkedIn profile, most were selling sporting goods or something equally relevant a year ago

As for the rest, I really don't care if someone with zero knowledge of a complex and ever-changing world wants to argue the case or not; you asked for advice, you got it. You don't accept it in the spirit in which it was offered, I could care less. I suggest we leave it there.

[MrMarkyMark]

OK, well you have had great advice on the car sales type methods utilised by bottom feeder agents.
Chalk it up to experience and move on.

As you get more seasoned, read experienced, then hopefully you will start dealing with the head of departments at agencies they tend to be far more professional.
You may even discuss other far more reaching business withy them, this has worked well for me in the past when I was building a team of contractors and wanted "certain", known quantity, CVs to get the specialists I wanted on a project.

That having been said my CV has not been on a job board for around 6 years now, as I largely get clients calling me direct, I can only assume agents are even more "hungry" these days.

You seem determined, so have that going for you, hopefully you walk the walk as good as you talk it .

£350 PD ironically was my first rate around 18 years ago. Funnily enough that 1st 3 monther (Jan to March) had to tide me over until October that same year.

Don't blow the cash, is probably the best advice if you want to last.
Your mates will be more than happy to help, if they think you are earning a few quid

I have had a full year when I didn't work at all, half of it by choice, as I had reserves this was not a problem.

You talk about moving the data analyst space, serious question, where were you thinking of heading to from there?

I mean that's what you really need to think about, because the more senior roles are where you will be earning the £700-£800 PD mark, or more if you negotiate well .

Anyways, good luck.

[purple banana]

Cheers Mark, great feedback.

Truth be told, I don't have a long-term end goal game-plan yet. I am young(ish) and really enjoy what I do (and am good at it - even if I do say so myself!). I have worked on two big data migration projects during my last two permie roles - which is where I have come to get to know contractors, and found that I far more enjoy project work than I do run-of-the-mill daily grind kind of jobs.

My intentions are that breaking into the market as a £350-500pd data analyst gets me the experience - both real & on paper - to start thinking about specialities to work towards over the next 30-35yrs.

PB

[BrilloPad]

Considering this is the number 1 contractor forum, the traffic and post count is appalling, a forum cant survive with such little interaction, it will go stale. Its theoretically possible to have a giant FAQ where people can read everything and need not ask anything, but that will destroy the forum and human interaction. This is is against interest of forum owner or webmaster whose interest is in bringing traffic and new members.

So the webmaster who has built the no 1 contractor site site should change the way the site works?