Advice on leaving

[billybiro]

In addition, it sounds like OP isn't behaving much like a contractor so isn't getting treated like one.

Whilst that may well be true in this case, it's important to remember that there are many, many places where even if you do behave like a contractor, you're going to get treated as a permie.

Some clients, and the staff within them, simply can't (or often don't want to) separate the two distinct types of workers. It makes things much easier for them to treat everyone the same.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been privately questioned about some alleged infraction (i.e. not working the exact same start and end hours as the permies) and being told, "Everyone here always does X". (Where "everyone" obviously means "staff"/"employees"). It's great seeing the looks on their faces when I politely remind them that a) I'm not staff. b) I'm working within the terms on my contract and c) If they don't like it, feel free to exercise your right to terminate!

[LondonManc]

Whilst that may well be true in this case, it's important to remember that there are many, many places where even if you do behave like a contractor, you're going to get treated as a permie.

Some clients, and the staff within them, simply can't (or often don't want to) separate the two distinct types of workers. It makes things much easier for them to treat everyone the same.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been privately questioned about some alleged infraction (i.e. not working the exact same start and end hours as the permies) and being told, "Everyone here always does X". (Where "everyone" obviously means "staff"/"employees"). It's great seeing the looks on their faces when I politely remind them that a) I'm not staff. b) I'm working within the terms on my contract and c) If they don't like it, feel free to exercise your right to terminate!

True. It also helps when you have other true contractors on site rather than permietractors who put themselves inside IR35 through their working practices.

[billybiro]

True. It also helps when you have other true contractors on site rather than permietractors who put themselves inside IR35 through their working practices.

Also very true. I think that there are some clients who are very used to using contractors, and frequently have a number of contractors on site working in different roles at any given point in time. These clients are usually the ones that can, and have no problem with, treating contractors and permies differently.

However, there is a whole other class of client and these are the ones who generally don't use contractors day-to-day, but only get contractors in when the proverbial has (or is about to) hit the fan on some project. They need additional warm bodies fast, and the contractor market can supply them at short notice, but frequently these clients are using (and thus see and treat) contractors as "temporary permies" (or permietractors as you put it).

[LondonManc]

Also very true. I think that there are some clients who are very used to using contractors, and frequently have a number of contractors on site working in different roles at any given point in time. These clients are usually the ones that can, and have no problem with, treating contractors and permies differently.

However, there is a whole other class of client and these are the ones who generally don't use contractors day-to-day, but only get contractors in when the proverbial has (or is about to) hit the fan on some project. They need additional warm bodies fast, and the contractor market can supply them at short notice, but frequently these clients are using (and thus see and treat) contractors as "temporary permies" (or permietractors as you put it).

All of which lends itself to a higher percentage of contractors naturally belonging inside IR35 than currently claim they are. If you're in a role that by its nature dictates that SDC rules apply, then it should be catered for. People treat it as a stigma and a bad thing; if negotiations are done properly, it can work out well.

[Pip in a Poke]

But totally this as well. It sounds like the OP isn't aware of IR35 but it's clear D&C to the extreme. If he isn't part and parcel the client manager is trying to make him for sure.

OP, did you have your contract checked by a specialist? What do you know about IR35?

Do we know it's a he?

It sounds as though the client is saying she/he can't have medical appointments midweek even if it's on her/his own time.

Presumably there's an option to take a half day but that's ludicrous for a 10 minute drs appointment. You simply take the hours or so that you need and make it up later on.

I'd be out of this one were it me.

[SueEllen]

Do we know it's a he?

It sounds as though the client is saying she/he can't have medical appointments midweek even if it's on her/his own time.

Presumably there's an option to take a half day but that's ludicrous for a 10 minute drs appointment. You simply take the hours or so that you need and make it up later on.

I'd be out of this one were it me.

I would take the half day.

In fact this is good for the OP as they can have interviews while being "at medical appointments".

And as they aren't an employee it's none of the client's business why they are sick.

[northernladuk]

Do we know it's a he?

WGAS. It's an anonymous Internet forum.

It sounds as though the client is saying she/he can't have medical appointments midweek even if it's on her/his own time.

Presumably there's an option to take a half day but that's ludicrous for a 10 minute drs appointment. You simply take the hours or so that you need and make it up later on.

I'd be out of this one were it me.

Some big assumptions there. You can't even get to your car let alone off site in 10 mins here. Either way, it's a bit tough but sometimes you've got to suck it up. You are an expensive resource to them. You come in and work the hours you are being paid however long you fancy nipping out of the office for. Maybe in time once you've delivered you can work it out with your client but don't expect it.

If you need to do something personal in a day you take half a day and do it.

[MrMarkyMark]

WGAS. It's an anonymous Internet forum.


Some big assumptions there. You can't even get to your car let alone off site in 10 mins here. Either way, it's a bit tough but sometimes you've got to suck it up. You are an expensive resource to them. You come in and work the hours you are being paid however long you fancy nipping out of the office for. Maybe in time once you've delivered you can work it out with your client but don't expect it.

If you need to do something personal in a day you take half a day and do it.

Absolutely this.
Currently have a very flexible arrangement on the whole, fair more than most perms, but would never take that for granted.

They certainly weren't the same when I did my first contract for them, though, far from it.
However, the initial project was a total disaster when I joined, with big money riding on it and I more than "helped" deliver it.

[Pip in a Poke]

WGAS. It's an anonymous Internet forum.


Some big assumptions there. You can't even get to your car let alone off site in 10 mins here. Either way, it's a bit tough but sometimes you've got to suck it up. You are an expensive resource to them. You come in and work the hours you are being paid however long you fancy nipping out of the office for. Maybe in time once you've delivered you can work it out with your client but don't expect it.

If you need to do something personal in a day you take half a day and do it.

I've never worked anywhere as a contractor that doesn't at least have a concept of core office hours of,say 9-4, with flexibility either side.


I aways ask at interview stage & if it's not on offer then I'm out. Quite simple really.

[pr1]

And as they aren't an employee it's none of the client's business why they are sick.

Well, it sort of is, so they know whether to expect you back by lunch or in 3 weeks (even if you're lying)