IR35 - Potential client can't fill perm role

[northernladuk]

Way too cautious IMHO. So you'd not accept a renewal for an otherwise good gig just in case of IR35?

I will admit of course, the longer ones look worse and, of course, there is more to lose. BUT, as you all know, there are good gigs and bad gigs. I certainly wouldnt turn down a guaranteed extension for a good gig just because of IR35 for sure. Admitedly, it might swing things if I was uncertain but not to a huge amount.

But then if you've got gigs offered to you left right and centre then maybe its doable. Just not for me.

Saying that, I've never had QDOS tell me a contract was inside IR35. Working practices would be possibly borderline though.

But that's purely your risk level and personally that's not good advice IMO. JLJ partially lost his case on borderline aspects. You've said in the past you do BAU work so it's always been borderline so have gotten used to the risk and have a pretty blasé approach to what you do anyway. If you are going to just take every gig regardless of how borderline it is you might as well stop worrying about IR35 altogether and just worry about not getting investigated instead. It's not a good gig anymore because you are at risk of losing a lot. You can't lose site of what you do and the regulations regardless of whether there is an extension on the table IMO.

You say you wouldn't turn down a guaranteed extension but do you know the fall out if you get investigated and the years of hassle while it goes on? I bet you don't. Head in the sand and get on with it.

There are plenty of gigs out there. We move from one to another, it's part of what we do. To get comfortable so comfortable at a client that you are willing to let your IR35 status slip is not the way to go IMO. All you are doing is gambling with the fact you think you won't get investigated and I'm sure the guys that have will tell us that it isn't worth it.

As I said in the first line it's a highly personal opinion when it's grey like this.

[Hobosapien]

Way too cautious IMHO. So you'd not accept a renewal for an otherwise good gig just in case of IR35?

Depends on the scenario and circumstances. For the one I'm replying to then it would initially depend on the QDOS review as to whether there was much to worry about anyway.

If the rate at renewal could be increased to offset all the potential IR35 tax then that would make it easier to accept the worry about whether IR35 will become an issue, and a financial bonus if an IR35 investigation never materialised.

Then depends on likely other work/contract availability at renewal if not 'loving it' at the client so wanted to stay on regardless of risk.

[LondonManc]

Wasn't it not long ago that any contract under 6 months would be low priority for HMRC investigations, such that any over 6 months triggered HR to need assurances about IR35? This may only affect the public sector, if accurate or still relevant.

Personally if I was 'desperate' for work and this contract was on the table I'd take it with the caveat that either or both of the following was true and made sure I didn't deviate later:

1. rate was higher to cover being inside IR35. Isn't it generally regarded something like an extra 20% on rate is required to offset being inside IR35. So can then just be inside IR35 and not worry about the extra tax as it's already covered, as most contractor costs should be.

2. Only accept a 3 or 6 month contract knowing I was not going to accept a renewal that went over the 6 months. The shorter the contract the better in terms of financial risk or raising one's profile on the HMRC easy pickings list. Many contracts start out short term (i.e 3 month initial period) and there's no obligation to accept any extension offer that may not even come.

Then in the meantime look around for other work in case need to 'jump ship' or not accept renewal once QDOS review of contract and working practices confirm inside IR35.

Too cautious imo; as long as it's deliverable-based, it's fine. If that takes longer than three months, then that's down to the bad estimation of the original project-planner.

1st round down and some further digging brought to light that there is a formal change project/programme behind the role so maybe I'm over thinking things.

Unfortunately, the desired budget won't stretch to my in IR35 rate. Will have to see how this progresses.

If it's project/programme, then that's a great sign. Your costs can be written off against the project that you were brought in to help deliver.

[northernladuk]

Depends on the scenario and circumstances. For the one I'm replying to then it would initially depend on the QDOS review as to whether there was much to worry about anyway.

If the rate at renewal could be increased to offset all the potential IR35 tax then that would make it easier to accept the worry about whether IR35 will become an issue, and a financial bonus if an IR35 investigation never materialised.

Then depends on likely other work/contract availability at renewal if not 'loving it' at the client so wanted to stay on regardless of risk.

Why do we roll this one out? It's just not going to happen.

[psychocandy]

Depends on the scenario and circumstances. For the one I'm replying to then it would initially depend on the QDOS review as to whether there was much to worry about anyway.

If the rate at renewal could be increased to offset all the potential IR35 tax then that would make it easier to accept the worry about whether IR35 will become an issue, and a financial bonus if an IR35 investigation never materialised.

Then depends on likely other work/contract availability at renewal if not 'loving it' at the client so wanted to stay on regardless of risk.

Slightly different of course. If QDOS said no way is the contract outside then thats different. I suppose if you get investigated you're screwed up front then.

I've never done a gig where the contract was inside ir35 accroding to QDOS.

[Hobosapien]

Why do we roll this one out? It's just not going to happen.

So you've never managed to negotiate a decent rate rise at renewal? AYSUACOTBAC.

Unless the maths don't add up, making it impossible to ever get a big enough rate rise to compensate enough as the IR35 tax will also increase?

[northernladuk]

So you've never managed to negotiate a decent rate rise at renewal? AYSUACOTBAC.

Unless the maths don't add up, making it impossible to ever get a big enough rate rise to compensate enough as the IR35 tax will also increase?

I've skimmed some off the agents margin but not enough to compensate for being inside IR35. If you can skim enough to cover it you need to get better at negotiation at the beginning of the gig.

[psychocandy]

Why do we roll this one out? It's just not going to happen.

Agree here.

Contractor: Thing is Im worried about my tax so need a rate increase...
Client: Umm sorry don't give a monkeys about your tax situation.

[LondonManc]

The problem isn't the contractor per se, the problem is the attitude of the BoS contractors who will blindly accept a contract, decide off their own back that they *want* to be outside IR35 and do their accounts accordingly. Until all contractors understand IR35, we won't have a leg to stand on.

[Hobosapien]

I've skimmed some off the agents margin but not enough to compensate for being inside IR35. If you can skim enough to cover it you need to get better at negotiation at the beginning of the gig.

Strangely I find it easier to negotiate a better rate at renewal when they've seen the value I bring rather than being passed over at interview stage for a cheaper candidate.

Depends on the line of work and how 'irreplaceable' you are perceived to be. Though asking for too much at renewal may be agreed initially due to the risk of losing the resource, but the client may then cull the most expensive first nearer the end of the project life cycle. All part of the game.