State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

This isn't to blow my own trumpet as it might just be luck of the draw so far but I haven't had an inside contract yet. Does it vary from sector to sector?

[jamesbrown]

This isn't to blow my own trumpet as it might just be luck of the draw so far but I haven't had an inside contract yet. Does it vary from sector to sector?

Definitely. Pharma, banks, regulated industries in general are all mostly inside now, unless you're at the top end of niche, and even then it's hard to get exceptions. The other big difference is UK clients vs. overseas. Overseas clients will be mostly Chapter 8 (old) IR35 unless there's a UK branch. I've always preferred overseas clients, but I don't bother with UK clients anymore.

[jamesbrown]

( And when I say inside IR35, I mean umbrella, primarily, so no IR35 determination at all - bypassing altogether is the only sane way for clients to handle it. )

[eek]

( And when I say inside IR35, I mean umbrella, primarily, so no IR35 determination at all - bypassing altogether is the only sane way for clients to handle it. )

And that's the thing people forget - the reason most firms put everyone inside is because IR35 is a two way thing and it's incredibly easy for lower level management to do things that bring (in HMRC eyes) the contract inside IR35 - so why take the risk.

[edison]

Definitely. Pharma, banks, regulated industries in general are all mostly inside now, unless you're at the top end of niche, and even then it's hard to get exceptions. The other big difference is UK clients vs. overseas. Overseas clients will be mostly Chapter 8 (old) IR35 unless there's a UK branch. I've always preferred overseas clients, but I don't bother with UK clients anymore.

I think you're right. I managed to get three outside gigs in pharma and banks, the first two with no industry experience, up until only four years ago. Now it's very difficult on both fronts.

From my experience, one highly regulated sector where it is still possible to get outside gigs, even with no sector experience, is local government. Even there it's more difficult on both fronts again.

[JustKeepSwimming]

I think you're right. I managed to get three outside gigs in pharma and banks, the first two with no industry experience, up until only four years ago. Now it's very difficult on both fronts.

From my experience, one highly regulated sector where it is still possible to get outside gigs, even with no sector experience, is local government. Even there it's more difficult on both fronts again.

When the clients became liable for determination AFAIK every bank went blanket inside, no exceptions. I've known instances of very well connected contractors being refused an exception. The bank just wouldn't budge and after months of negotiation they compromised on a FTC salary well outside the salary range for the grade.

You can't really blame them tbh, I think eek is right in that the way large companies are set up they just don't have the discipline structure or capability to ensure middle managers understand IR35 and don't **** it up. This was evident to anyone who worked for a bank in the outside days where managers thought 'Well they have a different employee ID and don't get their christmas lunch paid for, ergo they aren't employees!'.

[Cookielove]

Now clients are on the hook there are no outside roles….or v v few!

It is game over unfortunately 😞

[JustKeepSwimming]

Now clients are on the hook there are no outside roles….or v v few!

It is game over unfortunately 😞

In banking I'm struggling to see any contracts that beat salary. They pretty much price the contracts at the total cost of a perm for that role. Minimal danger pay. Doesn't really make sense in the current market to contract.

[Cookielove]

After saying never am looking at perm roles and FTC’s as quite a few of them about…the hurdle though is going from a v long term contractor to perm they don’t like it …been told that a lot oh we don’t want ex contractors 😕!

[SussexSeagull]

Now clients are on the hook there are no outside roles….or v v few!

It is game over unfortunately 😞

As I said, that is not my experience (which isn't to say it won't be eventually).