State of the Market

[WTFH]

...The fees were supposed to be flexible, dominated by market forces. So a not so good university would cost less than a better one. What actually happened was all universities maxed out the fees. I suppose demand proved such.

Almost like leaving things to market forces does not improve quality/standards, but just increases prices - and who'd have thought that after how well it works with utilities and transport.

[The_Equalizer]

I don't think students pay £10k a year to use the NHS. A student visa holder pays about £600 p.a. currently.

It depends on where you go in the UK; some regions charge less in fees (NI caught my eye at £36K plus £10K 'mandatory clinical placement levy') others just the straight £46K (Imperial for example). The bottom line appears to be £40K/year plus now for medical students from overseas which ever way you cut it. Wonder if most home medical students realise this?

[The_Equalizer]

Almost like leaving things to market forces does not improve quality/standards, but just increases prices - and who'd have thought that after how well it works with utilities and transport.

For broadband, mobile contracts, clothes and food it does seem to work.

[The_Equalizer]

Confirmation that paperwork is on its way for another 6 month extension. Very relieved given the grim reading on here, when the posts are actually about 'state of the market', and the time of year.

Excellent and good point. Sorry for drifting off.

[edison]

They are loss-making as they are incredibly badly run with huge pension liabilities, they need to be allowed to go bankrupt so they can merge and force real change through the whole sector. Interestingly some of the more professionally run places are creating mini-teaching centres in other cities which will drive out the weaker universities e.g. https://www.ucb.ac.uk/

The chase for the foreign more profitable student is a matter of survival for many of them but they should also be more efficient in what they do.

Think this has been happening for a while now with some courses like MBAs.

I can see a few going belly up in the next couple of years.

[jamesbrown]

I'm more trying to work out why they went from a situation of no tuition fees and a relatively low number of foreign students (so up to the late 1990s) to the current situation. The fees were supposed to be flexible, dominated by market forces. So a not so good university would cost less than a better one. What actually happened was all universities maxed out the fees. I suppose demand proved such.

Tuition fees were introduced in the late 1990s (1998, IIRC), but universities were still centrally funded by gov't through 2012, when the fee income was allowed to increase and central gov't funding stopped. The reason universities maxed out the fees was because they lost central gov't funding and the fees alone were not enough to make up the shortfall, especially as those fees were eroded by inflation. In other words, fees were a mechanism to reduce tax-payer funding of universities, but the fee income is still capped by gov't, rather than an arms-length body, and the gov't has a vested political interest in not increasing student fees too much. In short, it's just another gov't tulipfest

( And I wouldn't worry about this thread going off-topic - it happens about every 10 posts. There isn't really a "market" and it doesn't have a "state" )

[The_Equalizer]

I don't think students pay £10k a year to use the NHS. A student visa holder pays about £600 p.a. currently.

Tuition fees were introduced in the late 1990s (1998, IIRC), but universities were still centrally funded by gov't through 2012, when the fee income was allowed to increase and central gov't funding stopped. The reason universities maxed out the fees was because they lost central gov't funding and the fees alone were not enough to make up the shortfall, especially as those fees were eroded by inflation. In other words, fees were a mechanism to reduce tax-payer funding of universities, but the fee income is still capped by gov't, rather than an arms-length body, and the gov't has a vested political interest in not increasing student fees too much. In short, it's just another gov't tulipfest

( And I wouldn't worry about this thread going off-topic - it happens about every 10 posts. There isn't really a "market" and it doesn't have a "state" )

Cheers for the detailed account and that makes a lot of sense. Personally I would have thought the pre-1998 model better even if there were substantially fewer places. Impossible to rewind to that position though.

How's the contractor market...

[edison]

I'm a member of a fractional community, mainly aimed at CxOs and other senior management levels, although it's not exclusive to IT. I've been struck by just how many CTOs have joined in the last few weeks who appear to have come from perm or contract roles and startups. It's a different niche in the market but another sign that there are too many people chasing too few roles.

[GJABS]

I'm a member of a fractional community, mainly aimed at CxOs and other senior management levels, although it's not exclusive to IT.

What's a "fractional community"? A quick Google suggests it is for business networking. Is there anything differentiating it from other business networking organisations?

[tsmith]

I'm a member of a fractional community, mainly aimed at CxOs and other senior management levels, although it's not exclusive to IT. I've been struck by just how many CTOs have joined in the last few weeks who appear to have come from perm or contract roles and startups. It's a different niche in the market but another sign that there are too many people chasing too few roles.

Its definitely a trend.

Reasons - numerous Im sure

1) The number of bespoke builds is dropping with rise of SAAS is one

"Organizations use 371 SaaS applications on average, meaning SaaS usage has grown by 32% since 2021. The average department in an organization uses about 87 SaaS applications"

With all these supposed turn key SAAS solutions for everything- do you actually need so many full time senior people

Back in the day there was much more in house bespoke building of software= more people needed. Now its more stacks of SAAS software

2) Also with offshoring assuming outside UK resources will be cheaper = UK people compete by working less hours

This article was 2008 - I remember the contracting market for work in agencies was quite good 10 years ago. I had a couple of gigs. Now very rarely see any roles in agencies

https://www.clickz.com/agencies-cut-...shoring/88286/

"According to the WSJ, agency execs pay 20 percent to 50 percent less using overseas firms for this production, compared to what they would pay in the U.S.

Publicis Groupe’s Digitas has even created a dedicated digital-production company, Prodigious Worldwide, responsible for overseeing offshore production. The unit’s providers include avVenta, with offices in South America and Eastern Europe, and Kiev-based DDM among others."