State of the Market

[ladymuck]

Yes - I am originally from Poland. Worked there for 7 years, now 7 years in the UK.

Based on my experience (my colleagues has similar feelings), I don't think UK workers work longer and produce more. Working in Poland was harder and required producing about 50% more and tighter deadlines, based on lower day rates. To be honest, that's one of the reasons why I like to stay and work in the UK. Slower life, better work-life balance, no much pressure on deadlines at work in comparison to PL. However, financially the difference is not big anymore (especially comparing cost of living). Pandemic and remote work changed a lot there.

I'd agree with that. There's a lot of presenteeism with very little actually getting done. It's very easy to coast in a lot of roles (not all, before someone leaps at me!) hence why we get regular enquiries here about doing two jobs at the same time.

[edison]

Agree its not the whole western world.
When i was at the London office of a Austin Texas based client, one of the US permie managers told me he was taking home almost 75%, on approximately $200K salary.

I looked it up on a tax calculator, he was paying just 19% income tax. 5% Social security. 1.5% Medicare.

Several US states have zero income tax and about a dozen have a flat rate of around 5% or less. Obviously there are other ways to make up the tax take including federal income taxes and property taxes. But makes you think.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Based on my experience (my colleagues has similar feelings), I don't think UK workers work longer and produce more. Working in Poland was harder and required producing about 50% more and tighter deadlines, based on lower day rates. To be honest, that's one of the reasons why I like to stay and work in the UK. Slower life, better work-life balance, no much pressure on deadlines at work in comparison to PL. However, financially the difference is not big anymore (especially comparing cost of living). Pandemic and remote work changed a lot there.

Poland work longer but do not produce more. They produce significantly less. Not really my point though.

I'd agree with that. There's a lot of presenteeism with very little actually getting done. It's very easy to coast in a lot of roles (not all, before someone leaps at me!) hence why we get regular enquiries here about doing two jobs at the same time.

This mindset is very damaging to both companies and wider economy. Are you being hired for your time or your output?

[edison]

I am 50 in November and when I was choosing what to do in college in the 90s - in those days HNDs were a real alternative to degrees - I was steered into IT because everything was going onto computers, which proved to be true. Unfortunately for me several million Indians reached the same decision over the next few years and offshoring and the industry encouraged issuing of work permits has flooded the market.

I don't think the work has dried up or is threatening to (granted I imagine a few projects are on hold at the moment due to interest rates) but what we do has gone from being a desirable skill to something that goes to the lowest bidder.

I am not convinced it is much better in permie world as when I look the salaries aren't that much better than when I left it in 2008.

I don't know where all you old farts work but I can think of plenty of organisations I've worked for where there was a good proportion of contractors under 40. Maybe it's different for developers.

When I worked in the travel industry for a couple of years, there was hardly anyone over 50 in the IT function and that included the senior leadership team. A lot of the contractors were around 30-35. I did a spell in the hospitality industry for a fast growing scaleup and I think I was the oldest person in the entire company at 53. The next oldest person in IT was at least 10 years younger than me.

Ultimately, there's nothing special about many IT skills these days, a lot of them have become commoditised and can be sourced from lots of different places.

[6128k]

I'm the same. Despite being told many times once you are in an industry you are in I've also never been in the same one twice. PS, Pharma, Telecoms, Retail, banks you name it and in my two weeks on the bench I'm finding it a bit of a mare as well. Been about 10 roles in two weeks which I thought was great but each has some kind of problem. 3 or 4 got pulled before offer (apparently), one wasn't the role advertised, two got filled internally, at least three were sub 500 inside rates. It's very very strange. I used to be able to nail the first interview I had but now it's just a complete mess.

I was a tad overconfident about my skills and previous abilitiy to get outside roles and I've come down to earth with a bit of a crunch. It's not great out here at the moment. I'm 100% I'll get something within the month but I'm going to have to fight for it and it doesn't look like it will be the cushy well paid gig all the others were.

This all sounds very familiar to me. I have only ever worked Outside roles since I started contracting and I get offered the role if I get to interview stage.
I've had two interviews in 3 weeks 1st interview was with my previous client, they had to cut the rate and so didn't consider me after the interview. No call to discuss this rate cut until it was too late! 2nd interview was another outside role with a consultancy who had already approved me for a client, only for the client to turn around and ask for a completely different role!

Never been on the bench, so this is a very different experience for me too!

[brightondeveloper]

I have started noticiing the emails are picking up again - so that's something

[TheDude]

Been offered another six months.

I think I'll take it and hope things have picked up by March.

[Mephisto]

Thread needs renaming to 'Absolute State of the Market'.

Fking dire ?

[mem80]

Anyone saw recent Dave Chaplin's post on LinkedIn showing internal HMRC approach to IR35? 700+ contractors hired by HMRC last 2 years - 0 contractors stated as outside IR35. It shows the current approach to the IT contractors. and that's one of the reasons current contracting market is so dire. It also shows direction for the future -> if HMRC put all their contractors inside IR35, most other companies will try to do the same to limit risk of taxman visit. Is it end of contracting market as we know it?

[m0n1k3r]

I don't even consider Inside IR35 to be contracting. It's just temp employment under a different name.