State of the Market

[jayn200]

Yes, we do need a flexible workforce and the IR35 reforms are seriously flawed but a legal framework must be in place at some point to prevent disguised employment. There has to be a distinction between a contractor paid a daily rate picking up user stories from an agile board and another paid on deliverables wfh on a distinct piece of development. It isn't all that unusual for someone to leave a permanent job and work as a contractor for years at the same business, I don't think these people should be out of work, I do think they should be perm.

Why though? Why must there be a difference. We need more small business owners rather than less small business owners. That's how you grow the middle class and increase economic output. We should be encouraging as many people as possible to move to self employment and one way to do that is through lower tax obligations. People should be able to choose the employment structure that works best for them. If they don't want the protections of full time employment and prefer the tax savings and flexibility of contracting why shouldn't they be able to do that? Are you afraid that if we let too many people in the club that you'll feel less special?

[Shackattack]

not to mention a lot of the people from the outsourcers and consultancies are on work visas and get other tax perks like 1st 12 months in the UK free of both employers and employees national insurance. again rules written by the consultancies to help them tilt the playing field when in competition with independents.

You mean agencies and consultancies like Rishi Sunak's daddy inlaw, billionaire owner of Infosys.

The double whammy here is when you get into bed with any of the big five agencies the writing is on the wall, you pay through the nose, managing them is a pain in the back side and trying to get away from them is even worse, it's like being put on a morphine drip, they have their own internal politics and pay structures to navigate layered on top of the clients it's usually a mess.

I've always found the agency model flawed for eCommerce .

[Shackattack]

Yes, we do need a flexible workforce and the IR35 reforms are seriously flawed but a legal framework must be in place at some point to prevent disguised employment. There has to be a distinction between a contractor paid a daily rate picking up user stories from an agile board and another paid on deliverables wfh on a distinct piece of development. It isn't all that unusual for someone to leave a permanent job and work as a contractor for years at the same business, I don't think these people should be out of work, I do think they should be perm.

When you say contractors working in the same job for years what do you mean, it's very very rare. 10 years of contracting and I've had 2 contracts over 1 year and never over 2. Multiple contracts where employees want a pound of flesh, months without work, long hours. No such thing as 9 to 6 you answer email and work all hours.

My wife has worked in the same job for 20 years, she has holiday pay, (30 days), no breaks, 100% pension contribution on 10% of salary, sick pay, maternity pay, training courses, 9-5 with an hour for lunch, total flexibility, career path all mapped out.

Seriously why do people feel the need to pick and choice bits of information which suites their argument, you need to look at the whole picture.

This is a rule for billionaires, not for any of us on this forum.

[caffeine man]

When you say contractors working in the same job for years what do you mean, it's very very rare. 10 years of contracting and I've had 2 contracts over 1 year and never over 2. Multiple contracts where employees want a pound of flesh, months without work, long hours. No such thing as 9 to 6 you answer email and work all hours.

My wife has worked in the same job for 20 years, she has holiday pay, (30 days), no breaks, 100% pension contribution on 10% of salary, sick pay, maternity pay, training courses, 9-5 with an hour for lunch, total flexibility, career path all mapped out.

Seriously why do people feel the need to pick and choice bits of information which suites their argument, you need to look at the whole picture.

This is a rule for billionaires, not for any of us on this forum.

In my experience long IT contracts are not that rare. Done a 4.5 year one myself. Met another contractor on a 6 year one. Its not been common for me recently, I left the 4.5 year in 2012, and not been that lucky since.

[hungry_hog]

When you say contractors working in the same job for years what do you mean, it's very very rare. 10 years of contracting and I've had 2 contracts over 1 year and never over 2. Multiple contracts where employees want a pound of flesh, months without work, long hours. No such thing as 9 to 6 you answer email and work all hours.

My wife has worked in the same job for 20 years, she has holiday pay, (30 days), no breaks, 100% pension contribution on 10% of salary, sick pay, maternity pay, training courses, 9-5 with an hour for lunch, total flexibility, career path all mapped out.

Seriously why do people feel the need to pick and choice bits of information which suites their argument, you need to look at the whole picture.

This is a rule for billionaires, not for any of us on this forum.

It's not rare (or wasn't until this year).

Across FS clients in London (for some reason a black horse springs to mind, cough cough) you would have found many contractors who had done 5+ years.

They get hired for a project for a year or so, then move to another one. There are always hundreds of change projects in flight. In fact 7, 8 years was not uncommon.
Usually fire fighting type projects where the business has gone to hell in a hand basket.

This is a reason why IR35 was brought in.

These people are getting switched to FTC now

[Old Greg]

In my experience long IT contracts are not that rare. Done a 4.5 year one myself. Met another contractor on a 6 year one. Its not been common for me recently, I left the 4.5 year in 2012, and not been that lucky since.

I'm 4 years in, but it's my only contract over 2 years.

[Excursion UK]

In my experience long IT contracts are not that rare. Done a 4.5 year one myself. Met another contractor on a 6 year one. Its not been common for me recently, I left the 4.5 year in 2012, and not been that lucky since.

Yes but I think it's down to one's particular discipline. Most of mine have been 6 months with just one extending to 2 years. I know quite a few Oracle guys who are long term permietractors and a few BI folks but I'm 100% front end and the work I do does not really fit into the BAU arena so it's get in, do the job and then move on the the next contract.

[Shackattack]

It's not rare (or wasn't until this year).

Across FS clients in London (for some reason a black horse springs to mind, cough cough) you would have found many contractors who had done 5+ years.

They get hired for a project for a year or so, then move to another one. There are always hundreds of change projects in flight. In fact 7, 8 years was not uncommon.
Usually fire fighting type projects where the business has gone to hell in a hand basket.

This is a reason why IR35 was brought in.

These people are getting switched to FTC now

Do you people not feel like you dis-empower yourself when you come up with comments like this, to me it feels like you are fighting and quibbling over scraps. A majority of wealth is locked away in the vaults of a tiny tiny minority of billionaires. The more of this wealth we transfer to them the less well of all of us are, that is exactly what we are doing and it's pathetic.

If you want to be a contractor do it there is nothing stopping you, you'll never be rich but it is empowering and why shouldn't life be like that? Stop being scared and stop hiding behind your excuses. If you want to point the finger point it in the right place.

[Shackattack]

Absolute tosh, i worked for 2 off the big 5 in canary wharf, a tiny minority had 6-7 year contracts and it was the talk of contractors. in Telecoms when we launched EE there was 1 on one of the biggest IT projects this decade a developer who built the platform. Facts please not bluff.

[northernladuk]

Erm. You know you've just shot your own post down don't you??