Extension Rate Increase: Ask the manager or the agent?

**northernladuk** · 2 May 2016, 21:32

Who is your contract with and who pays you?

There are a ton of threads on this question sadly and a lot if discussion as to what your chances are of getting a rise, who's pocket it will come out of ultimately etc.

Use the search method described in the FAQ section.

**TheBA** · 2 May 2016, 21:39

Self bill via agent system, money comes from agent.

Yes, I have searched. I even used a link you kindly posted but most of the time it was about justifying, which in this case I clearly can.
If I say no they'll go out to market as a new role. I'd expect the increase to be paid for by the client given the higher expectations.
I'm still new to this game so I'm just trying make sure I direct the question to the right party.

**northernladuk** · 2 May 2016, 23:56

Well in this case your agent is on your side as they get more out of it as well but if you give them half an idea you don't know the score they will try and pull a quick one and not pass the whole rate on, unless they are on a fixed rate.
Do you know if they are on a fixed rate or not? If they are you are laughing.

It's unusual for a client to offer a rise without having their arm twisted as well. Doing half of a gig does not always put you up to the next rate on their rate card so you are in an interesting position.
Have you spoken about rates with the client before? Do you have a good enough relationship with them to openly discuss them?
What do you want? Will you do the gig if they don't offer more money? You could ask the manager if there isn't rate rise attached to this and see. Are you willing to walk if he says no. Remember if they go to market they'll be looking for an experienced PM, not a BA doing a bit of PM work. They may not agree you should be on the same rate so you might have to do some negotiation. They may also not discuss figures with you but I think they should be able to tell you if they are moving you up the rate card or not.

If they don't offer a rise when you speak to them at least tell them you need to think about it so you can get your next move ready. Dont be forced in to a decision there and then.

**TheBA** · 3 May 2016, 08:31

Thanks for this, lots of good questions.
I haven't been here long, less than 2 months and I have never discussed rate, even at the interview stage, although I didn't meet the hiring manager/hr.
Yes, I'd do the gig without the rate rise as I'm on a good rate (+£400) for the North West and only have 5 weeks contracting on the cv. I'd rather bank 9 months than another 7 weeks.

**LondonManc** · 3 May 2016, 08:33

Explain to the hiring manager that you'd be willing to do it but there's an increase in responsibility that you'd like reflected in the day rate. If they're happy to discuss numbers, do it directly because then the agent has no wriggle room when trying to BS you.

**northernladuk** · 3 May 2016, 09:18

A couple of things were bugging me about this so thought I'd put my opinion down and open it for discussion.

OP should do as LM suggests but...

I'd be very wary about 'increased responsibility'. This line smacks of permie mentality to me and is often used incorrectly IMO. The OP is a skilled BA and has been asked to do some PM work. Something he isn't a specialist and is most likely being asked because he's a bod on site that could do it. You could easily argue this is a CHANGE in responsibilities, not an increase. If the OP was a PM working on one small project and get's offered a massive programme role I could see it, but a BA doing a part time PM role? Sounds like a similar level to me so I'd strongly argue the 'increase in responsibilities line'. The OP might think it's an increase but the client is more likely to see it as the same level. He's not gaining any specialist by using the OP. I'd go as far to suggest to the OP he's very careful the gig isn't going to end up part and parcel very quickly and watch D&C if they are will to swap so quickly. Where there is nothing to be lost asking if the OP wants to, 2 months in and he's chomping at the clients heels about increases where the client would quite rightly believe one isn't justified could possibly backfire in rare instances. Sounds like he's got a good relationship with this one so sounds unlikely.

I don't know anything about the OP's situation so some assumptions being made there but happy to listen to other peoples opinions.

Oh and OP... remember you are only as good as your last gig. Don't let your CV get watered down unless what you are doing adds value, which you have indicated it would.

Make sure you get a very clear schedule of work with deliverables for both clearly documented as well. If they are happy to give out PM roles to BA's I wouldn't be surprised if they already see you as just a body on site so make sure you are covered IR35 wise.

**Project Monkey** · 3 May 2016, 10:15

I'm a PM on my current contract, but thinking of switching to technical architect at next renewal. Anyone see a problem with this?

**BrilloPad** · 3 May 2016, 10:48

Definitely the Agent.

**TheBA** · 3 May 2016, 11:07

My relationship is good with the team but I've hardly met the manager as they're in a different location, they just approve my timesheet.

My background is a mix of IT BA (requirements), process improvement/managing 'small' projects of that sort, mainly the latter two. The new element will be hand holding the roll out of a new product/processes and the 1st live run through; testing new processes and finally embedding in BAU with their outsourced ops. So not too far removed from my background.

From a D&C perspective, there risk is that I'll be following loosely defined processes the client already has as a part of the 'live testing'/hardware ordering element that I will be undertaking.

Extension Rate Increase: Ask the manager or the agent?