C# Investment bank £330 P/D

[ShandyDrinker]

The market for WPF is dreadful and has worsened year on year to the point where I've given up on it after a 6 year stint.

Why is this, do you think ?

WPF has always been niche hence the good rates that have been on offer over the last decade for anyone with that skillset. It will always be sensitive to minor changes in demand.

Reduction in demand could be due to move to web based applications, reduction in use of C#/.Net generally and so on.

[oliverson]

Why is this, do you think ? </Genuine question>

Boo

Because of the rise of HTML5, Javatulip and frameworks like Angular. These are now deemed 'good enough' for LOB applications. Inferior to desktop applications but good enough. Because web skills are more widely available (and in most cases cheaper) than WPF. Younger decision makers who come from a web-centric world, rather than dinosaurs like me who came through the ranks a decade or two earlier. Responsive UI, though I've yet to see anybody in banking accessing any of the types of applications I write using an iPhone or iPad.

[_V_]

Because of the rise of HTML5, Javatulip and frameworks like Angular. These are now deemed 'good enough' for LOB applications. Inferior to desktop applications but good enough. Because web skills are more widely available (and in most cases cheaper) than WPF. Younger decision makers who come from a web-centric world, rather than dinosaurs like me who came through the ranks a decade or two earlier. Responsive UI, though I've yet to see anybody in banking accessing any of the types of applications I write using an iPhone or iPad.

It's the fragmentation of the technology stack. In the past, everyone did everything at a PC. Now the "PC" can be an Apple Mac, or a Android tablet, or even a smartphone. The backend could be Linux or Windows or a mix, or in the cloud. The code could be in Python, or JavaScript, or .NET or Java.

The permutations have become endless, and WPF is very specific to Windows desktops and Microsoft stack. Can't see a future in WPF in a few years time.

The future is HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript + a host of frameworks + whatever languages are flavour of the month. Python seems to be flying high.

[ShandyDrinker]

It's the fragmentation of the technology stack. In the past, everyone did everything at a PC. Now the "PC" can be an Apple Mac, or a Android tablet, or even a smartphone. The backend could be Linux or Windows or a mix, or in the cloud. The code could be in Python, or JavaScript, or .NET or Java.

The permutations have become endless, and WPF is very specific to Windows desktops and Microsoft stack. Can't see a future in WPF in a few years time.

The future is HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript + a host of frameworks + whatever languages are flavour of the month. Python seems to be flying high.

While I agree with you about fragmentation I'm not so convinced by the web technologies taking over everything. Sure, they've improved over the last decade or so but the reality still nowhere near matches the rhetoric. For rich client UIs (be they Windows, Mac or anything else), a native implementation still beats a web based system for sheer performance. If it were such that this isn't the case, in reality all of the tablet technologies should really be nothing more than thin client web access devices.

Python seems to be flying high because of a couple of things (ignoring the usual easy to learn arguments etc)... firstly the barrier to entry is low (in terms of cost etc unlike MS although they are improving that) and secondly many organisations like BAML, JP Morgan, etc have been using Python in anger for a while now which has made it worthwhile for people to learn it as the rewards can be so great.

While WPF may ultimately die a death (just look at Silverlight), I think that rich client apps aren't going anywhere soon and will hopefully be around another 25-30 years until I've retired.

What I can say with some certainty is that in the time I've been in development you've gone from being able to get away with knowing say either C++ or VB6 and some SQL to having to know so much more and rather than open source being a help more often than not you get some fool on a project who decides the latest and greatest framework (particularly in the Web/Javascript world) must be included... CV driven development at its best!

[_V_]

While I agree with you about fragmentation I'm not so convinced by the web technologies taking over everything. Sure, they've improved over the last decade or so but the reality still nowhere near matches the rhetoric. For rich client UIs (be they Windows, Mac or anything else), a native implementation still beats a web based system for sheer performance. If it were such that this isn't the case, in reality all of the tablet technologies should really be nothing more than thin client web access devices.

Python seems to be flying high because of a couple of things (ignoring the usual easy to learn arguments etc)... firstly the barrier to entry is low (in terms of cost etc unlike MS although they are improving that) and secondly many organisations like BAML, JP Morgan, etc have been using Python in anger for a while now which has made it worthwhile for people to learn it as the rewards can be so great.

While WPF may ultimately die a death (just look at Silverlight), I think that rich client apps aren't going anywhere soon and will hopefully be around another 25-30 years until I've retired.

What I can say with some certainty is that in the time I've been in development you've gone from being able to get away with knowing say either C++ or VB6 and some SQL to having to know so much more and rather than open source being a help more often than not you get some fool on a project who decides the latest and greatest framework (particularly in the Web/Javascript world) must be included... CV driven development at its best!

I would say that the latest web UI can be as rich as WPF and as responsive, using SignalR, D3.js, SVG, jQuery plugins, Kendo UI, etc

I'd be surprised if WPF is being developed for new things, more support and maintainence roles I suspect. Good luck and hopefully there's enough work to see you through.

[ShandyDrinker]

I would say that the latest web UI can be as rich as WPF and as responsive, using SignalR, D3.js, SVG, jQuery plugins, Kendo UI, etc

I'd be surprised if WPF is being developed for new things, more support and maintainence roles I suspect. Good luck and hopefully there's enough work to see you through.

I think you'd be surprised. A lot of the higher paying C# roles I'm being contacted about this week are WPF which I'm genuinely surprised about given some of the earlier comments in this thread.

My rich client UI comment was made somewhat tongue in cheek... unfortunately you have to keep reinventing yourself and keep up with the latest and greatest which is why I can understand people wanting to get out.

I have no intention of starting a flame war of the type that my technology is better than yours... I just think you might be too dismissive of particular technologies.

If I have to learn new frameworks to survive then so be it!

[PerfectStorm]

I make that £4743 takehome a month. Don't be a dick, that's good money to someone.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

I make that £4743 takehome a month. Don't be a dick, that's good money to someone.

Outside London that ain't bad.... In London it might rent you a mini-shed. I guess if you are content with that then fair enough.

[fool]

Outside London that ain't bad.... In London it might rent you a mini-shed. I guess if you are content with that then fair enough.

You could get a decent flat and have a pretty decent life in a nice area. You wont be saving much at all though.

[coolhandluke]

I've just finished a gig for a big UK retail company that had 50 odd contractors developing a new WPF App for its new EPOS system. You can't interface with a barcode scanner or receipt printer easily from a browser.

That said I still dislike WPF.