Contract Review & Working Practices

[scribe0101]

Hi All,

Did a bit of a search, but couldn't find an answer to this.

Has anyone ever had their working practices documented up front?

I normally contract with clients through an agency and my contract is with the particular agency. This time although the agency found me the client, the contract is not with the agency and is direct with the client. I have IR35 insurance and I've had the contract reviewed by the provider with only small amendment suggested.

That would be good, but there is a disclaimer from the provider that the insurance is only valid with a successful review of working practices. Now, I've only been contracting 3 and a bit years, but I've never had my working practices documented so that they can be reviewed (nor did I ever give such document to one of the may contractors I've employed).

I'm not going to know my working practices until I've been there several weeks and could only do this review verbally. Perhaps this is a nice get out clause for the provider and the policy isn't worth much.

Anyone faced this before?

Cheers

Scribe

[MPwannadecentincome]

First time I have needed working practises review

I did a quick search on here too and just found your (unanswered) post.

Maybe you should have posted in "legal" to get an answer.

So what did you do in the end?

I have been contracting for a while and for the first time I am faced with having to do a working practises review. I have found the agency to be completely un co-operative, saying my accountant is responsible.

Seems like the only way to get this done is after starting the gig or does anyone have any different experience?

But... what is the point if it is self "guesswork", if HMRC investigate and ask the client and they give different answers we are the ones that are screwed so what is the bloody hang up about telling us the working practises in advance (rhetorical question!)??

[northernladuk]

I very much doubt you'll get them documented up front because the client could be worried their signing up for something that will bite them later. It also removes any flexibility they have. It's going to be hard to find anyone in a large organisation that has that level of authority .

You could try getting a Confirmation of Arrangements signed when you start. A template can be found on the QDOS website but again it's hard to find the right person to sign it and if you just wander around with a piece of paper asking people to sign you could look like an eejit or a trouble maker.

Who is the provider? If you get QDOS to review it and then take out their TLC35 you can't go wrong.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Yes I feel I will look like the eejit... what is shocking is that nobody seems to have asked before, so are lots of people just ignoring the "problem" and pretending they are not in IR35 anyway?

Who is the provider? If you get QDOS to review it and then take out their TLC35 you can't go wrong.

What do you mean by "provider"?

[northernladuk]

Yes I feel I will look like the eejit... what is shocking is that nobody seems to have asked before, so are lots of people just ignoring the "problem" and pretending they are not in IR35 anyway?

I think you would be shocked at people that don't know or care what IR35 is. I can see at least 5 people where I am sitting to whom I've had to explain what IR35 is recently.

What do you mean by "provider"?

I presume that question is aimed at the OP?

[SueEllen]

Yes I feel I will look like the eejit... what is shocking is that nobody seems to have asked before, so are lots of people just ignoring the "problem" and pretending they are not in IR35 anyway?

Nope.

Agents in general don't know about working conditions on-site. They are just sales people who are told to force you to opt-out (if the client hasn't forbidden it) and agree to be on their spam list (until you find the clauses in the contract and change them).

So you need to ask random questions about culture and practises when you meet the client to judge whether it could fall into IR35. You are interviewing them as well as them interviewing you.

There is absolutely no way even if you have the supposed working practices documented that you can prove they are true until you start providing services to the client. Lots of clients allow more flexibility in practise than on paper. So I suggest you make sure you get emails to your own business account illustrating you aren't an employee during the provision of your services.

Most importantly you need to ensure that your contract is IR35 proof and has clear and reasonable other clauses.

[SueEllen]

What do you mean by "provider"?

Provider of insurance.

[northernladuk]

Provider of insurance.

He also said the provider reviewed his contract for IR35 so don't understand if it's the same people why the issue? Something isn't right here.

[SueEllen]

He also said the provider reviewed his contract for IR35 so don't understand if it's the same people why the issue? Something isn't right here.

Yeah you are right - the contract is direct so there doesn't need to be a confirmation of arrangements letter.

The confirmation of arrangements letter is just the providers (whether they are an insurance company or an accountant providing insurance as part of their package) get out clause if it goes wrong. However in this case there isn't an intermediary so it's not needed.

Even if there was an intermediary it's not worth the paper it's written on as it's not a legal contract or evidence showing that you are not an employee. For example having to go home because there is no work to do and having this recorded by email, on timesheets etc is proper evidence that you don't fall within IR35. The confirmation of arrangements letter may say this but you may as well get as much of this stuff in your contract as possible as the contract is legally binding.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Most importantly you need to ensure that your contract is IR35 proof and has clear and reasonable other clauses.

Other opinion seems to think the working practises are more important.
My contract is not IR35 friendly in QDOS opinion. Agency will not change any clauses so I am stuck with that.