Client wants to hire me as a permie

[MrMarkyMark]

Surely there's a fair percentage of people happy to be on umbrella/inside ir35? Not everyone's on 400++ per day

I would suggest they would be better off perm.

In fact a lot of our issues are related to other temporary work arrangments and the increase in the amount of people "contracting".

Treating us all the same, is a complete nonsense IMO, especially if you are an SME.

[pr1]

I would suggest they would be better off perm.

In fact a lot of our issues are related to other temporary work arrangments and the increase in the amount of people "contracting".

Treating us all the same, is a complete nonsense IMO, especially if you are an SME.

so you dont think anyone would prefer being paid double by sacrificing perm rights (even with paye tax)?

[LondonManc]

so you dont think anyone would prefer being paid double by sacrificing perm rights (even with paye tax)?

I think he was talking about the being inside IR35, giving you a massive kick in the taxy preverbials.

[unixman]

If it's permie work it will be inside IR35. Just walk away.

It is the working practices that IR35 seeks to differentiate, not the work itself. Not what you do, but how you and your client treat each other. Do you treat your client like a boss ? Does he treat you like staff?

Some people think that a contractor can never do what a permie could do, or anything "ongoing". For example, provide ongoing support of an application or system. But this simply isn't the case. A client could engage a contractor to look after a database while the permie DBA is pregnant, for example. The contractor would be doing precisely the same work as the permie, but on a contract basis.

There will always be grey areas. The construction of large grey areas was a central plank in the design of IR35. They haunt the environs in order to scare people off contracting like one of those ghosts in Scooby-doo. All you can do is stay away from the worst grey areas. All the government can do (since it really has no idea how you and your client treat each other, or what your working practices are) is prosecute contractors fairly randomly, losing cases, and catching the odd genuine abuser (eg permie off payroll, some job for years).

[northernladuk]

so you dont think anyone would prefer being paid double by sacrificing perm rights (even with paye tax)?

Someone came up with a figure where you'd be better off umbrella than LTD which is around 30k a year which isn't a lot. Is that what you mean?

[MrMarkyMark]

so you dont think anyone would prefer being paid double by sacrificing perm rights (even with paye tax)?

You were talking about the lower paid, so that was my context.
You also have to consider continuity of employment, bonuses, pension....etc etc.

I don't understand how you think you would still be paid double, once you are inside .

[pr1]

Someone came up with a figure where you'd be better off umbrella than LTD which is around 30k a year which isn't a lot. Is that what you mean?

yes, earning 30k and using umbrella vs 18k perm salary, for example

[pr1]

You were talking about the lower paid, so that was my context.
You also have to consider continuity of employment, bonuses, pension....etc etc.

I don't understand how you think you would still be paid double, once you are inside .

double gross

[MrMarkyMark]

As I said you would have to factor in (possible) lack of continued employment.

There is a maximum number of days you can work in a year as a contractor, less furlough time, if applicable.
In addition you would have to average this, over time, say over 5 years.
You may find the difference, net, may be less than you think.

[pr1]

As I said you would have to factor in (possible) lack of continued employment.

There is a maximum number of days you can work in a year as a contractor, less furlough time, if applicable.
In addition you would have to average this, over time, say over 5 years.
You may find the difference, net, may be less than you think.

let's picture a more short-term-gains thinking person

they've been on 15k sal all their life, they see 15k perm salary job vs £150/d contract (34.5k for 46*5 days) - you think they're gonna care about the ins and outs of IR35? they're looking at a big pay rise even if they go brolly

There's lots of HR/PA's at my clientco who would prob only be able to get about £20k salary but are on £200/d "inside ir35" contracts through umbrella (by their choice)

I see people (nluk best example) on one hand complaining that half the people on here "ANCOTBAC", that they're taking the p1sh with contracting and on the other hand telling people to run to the hills if there's a sniff of a contract being inside IR35...

lots of people on here forget the uk median wage is only about 27k - contracting (even via brolly) can be a big lifestyle change for 'lower' income people