Hourly rate - client limits 'claimable' hours per day

[Whorty]

My first contract ever and I'm in the thick of it! Taking it as a learning experience.

Sounds like the mgr has been under the cosh from his own boss and instead of trying to manage the situation, or being honest with his management, he is trying to bully you guys. This happens quite a bit, but good experience for you to see this and learn how to deal with it.

The good thing about contracting is, within 6 months you'll have forgotten most of this and will be working for a new client. Onwards and upwards

[SpontaneousOrder]

If a client manager 'exploded' at me, I'd suggest to them that they are behaving inappropriately if they want to see us continue to do business. They might get 1 warning - certainly not 2.

[psychocandy]

OP - so its deffo an hourly rate you're on and not a PWD?
If it was PWD, then its a bit harder to say no to the extra - but you still should.
hourly was popular years ago and most client put a cap on it - to stop contractors claiming 60 hours and blowing the budget.

If I was on an hourly like you and the deal as per contract was 8 hours max then that'd be it. OK Fair enough the odd freebie if something urgent went down but as long as they didnt take the piss.

To have a dig and threaten because you're not working for free is beyond. If they have an issue and want extra work then they ask if its POSSIBLE for you to work extra hours and agree payment for them. Even then, I'd only do if I could - family etc come first.

If someone TOLD me to work my lunch for free then they could do one. Of course, if they can get away with it - treating you like permies - they will.

Imagine the manager:-

1) Scenario 1 -he tells his manager the work is done and he managed to get the contractors to do it - brownie points.
2) Scenario 2 - sorry the budget is exceeded by 20% because we had to pay the contractors extra - no brownies for him.

[TheFaQQer]

With this in mind, my question is; can the client refuse to pay us the extra hours we work,

If it's in the contract that they pay for the hours that you work, then you bill for the hours that you have worked and they pay for it. If it's not in the contract (eg. you're on a PWD with a minimum number of hours) then you don't bill for it - you then either work it for free or not.

or threaten us with our jobs if we do only work those 8 hours we can get paid for, and miss targets because the workload vs headcount is off?

They can terminate in line with the contract. That's why you are a contractor not an employee.

[amc88]

OP - so its deffo an hourly rate you're on and not a PWD?
If it was PWD, then its a bit harder to say no to the extra - but you still should.
hourly was popular years ago and most client put a cap on it - to stop contractors claiming 60 hours and blowing the budget.

Sorry, what's PWD?

The contract I have between my Ltd Co and Agent states an hourly rate and that's how my time sheets are completed, if that helps?

The only document I can dig out with my Client is the job description. As it's renewal time I'm asking about getting the contract re-written to include the stuff my Client wants me to take on, along with a rate increase (with justified reasons rather than 'I can get more elsewhere' - but this is one of them) and I've also asked for a copy of the contract between my Ltd Co and the Client so I can check minimum / maximum hours and everything else that has been said on here

My Co's contract with the Agent doesn't state any of this, just legal stuff like termination rights, rates of pay, intellectual property rights, etc. Nothing about minimum / maximum hours or what my role actually states

Thanks for your help so far; this place is very educational

[TheCoconutDog]

PWD = Professional Working Day.
YourCo does not have a contract with ClientCo.

[northernladuk]

Contract between LTD and client? How can people contract yet have no clue about what they are doing. Replace BETs with an interview and when anyone says anything as daft as this they are deemed inside IR35. Simple.

[SueEllen]

The contract I have between my Ltd Co and Agent states an hourly rate and that's how my time sheets are completed, if that helps?

The only document I can dig out with my Client is the job description. As it's renewal time I'm asking about getting the contract re-written to include the stuff my Client wants me to take on, along with a rate increase (with justified reasons rather than 'I can get more elsewhere' - but this is one of them) and I've also asked for a copy of the contract between my Ltd Co and the Client so I can check minimum / maximum hours and everything else that has been said on here

My Co's contract with the Agent doesn't state any of this, just legal stuff like termination rights, rates of pay, intellectual property rights, etc. Nothing about minimum / maximum hours or what my role actually states

You are in a bit of a mess aren't you.

The contract between your company and the agent should state your hourly rate and any restrictions on the hours worked i.e. £5 per hour with a maximum of 8 hours payable in any 24 hour period. It should also list what your deliverables are.

There is no contract between you and the client in any shape or form. In fact the client shouldn't even give you a "job description". Any role description should be in the paperwork the agency gives your company.

I hope you got your contact checked out before signing it.....

[amc88]

You are in a bit of a mess aren't you.

The contract between your company and the agent should state your hourly rate and any restrictions on the hours worked i.e. £5 per hour with a maximum of 8 hours payable in any 24 hour period. It should also list what your deliverables are.

There is no contract between you and the client in any shape or form. In fact the client shouldn't even give you a "job description". Any role description should be in the paperwork the agency gives your company.

I hope you got your contact checked out before signing it.....

MyCo's contract with the Agent doesn't state anything about restrictions on hours worked; it just confirms what my hourly rate is and that I'll get paid weekly in arrears - nothing is stated about maximum, minimum, 'out of hours', etc

Apologies, I received the JD from the agent rather than directly from the client but it wasn't part of the contract I signed and returned to them

The contract makes mention of an 'Assignment Confirmation Letter' which appears to be the document that lists my obligations to the Client. I only have a copy of the Assignment Schedule (confirming the Agent, Client and MyCo's details, the rate, assignment start / end dates and notice period) instead of the ACL that details what I'm actually contracted to DO for the Client. I'll make sure to get a copy of this from future agents before signing anything. I'm embarrassed I didn't ask for this from the Agent. I thought the JD was this. Naivety apparent and lesson learnt

I'm now acutely aware that what I thought I knew about contracting, I don't - so thanks for helping me get on the right track with this

[Eirikur]

Assignment Confirmation Letter

Is your agency Hays by any chance?