IR35; have you walked away?

[TheFaQQer]

(like what I does for various bit of freelance work)

like as what I does for various bit of freelance work

[TheFaQQer]

I agree. As has been mentioned a few times reality trumps contract but if it's direct and they won't budge on certain aspects such as RoS and D&C my alarm bells would be clanging very loudly. What happens if you get on site and you find you are indeed being directed and there isn't a hope of RoS? You are screwed. Remember RoS won't work in a majority of cases even though it's in the contract so you can fairly safely assume if they refuse to put it in they won't allow it. I would proceed very carefully with a contract in this state TBH.

Even if there was a definite fail on RoS and D&C then you'd just have to show that there was no MoO - make sure you don't get paid for doing nothing, and that there is no continual relationship.

[northernladuk]

Even if there was a definite fail on RoS and D&C then you'd just have to show that there was no MoO - make sure you don't get paid for doing nothing, and that there is no continual relationship.

Completely agree. As I said I would tread carefully to make sure that if a client wants to direct and not allow subs its possible MoO will be a problem and they are really just after a temp. And as mentioned previously MoO would be my least favourite of the three to rely on. I'd be much more comfortable if it was clearly defined, understood and been tested legally but that's another conversation.

I'm not saying its a lost cause but there are gig's out there that are inside IR35 and there is nothing you can do about it.

[MicrosoftBob]

I've walked, but I've also tried the line of I'll take it but for an increase of x because the contract is inside IR35 but they declined

[BolshieBastard]

so the feeling i am getting from the responses is that work practices does indeed play a major role along side the contract; even if that does fail, but it would be good to also have a ir35 friendly contract as well?

The contract has been reviewed via QDOS who failed it on D&C and RoS. Suppose this is the first time going direct with a client, so probably a bit more cautious I guess (mainly cold feet ).

None of the contracts I accepted failed a review so I guess I was lucky! Yes, the actual working practices also count. HMRC playing their usual dirty tricks managed to play both sides, first contract compliance and if they couldnt get you on that, they investigate the working practices.

If your contract fails review, you need to make sure your working practices and support from your client back this up. If they dont and you ignore the iR35 'fail' you will be in bigger trouble if HMRC do an IR35 investigation.

IMHO, if your contract fails and you are not 100% sure the client will support you in any resultant investigation, either work the contract as iR35 caught (some money better than nothing) or walk away.

Just my opinion though.

[Scruff]

And would your colleagues agree with that assessment?

I don't have any colleagues?

[Project Monkey]

Yes, I was actually in a gig that was contractually outside, but it soon became clear that the client wanted me to be just like the permies including doing project team appraisals and discussing development objectives with me. I was even told I had to attend the Christmas party FFS!

After the first 6 months I gave 'personal reasons' excuse, declined the extension and left on good terms.