being paid less than permanent staff! What would you do?

[AMH]

Ill speak to the agency this morning.
going permy is not an option.

I posted asking for help on how to approach the situation.
I dont need to be told to quit, look elsewhere, go permy, etc.
They are the options I have to consider afterwards. Along with possibly a tribunal route under AWR.

[b0redom]

Are you a sockie? Seriously, you've been at the same client for 4 years? If you don't understand AWR (and good luck with a tribunal BTW) did you ever get your contract reviewed with regard to IR35? Do your working practices mirror the permies, or do you operate as a real business?

Why does it matter what the permies are on? Presumably you took the rate because it was acceptable to you. Jealousy is not a good way to approach the situation. As others have said, there's not a great deal you can do until renewal time when you can say, "I want £x....." and then shut up and wait for their counter offer, which may of course be, "Ok. Bye then."

[TheFaQQer]

being paid less than permanent staff! What would you do?

Not give two hoots. I fix my rate based on what I think I'm worth and what the client thinks I'm worth (unless there are other pressing concerns). I care not what other people (contract or permanent) earn - I fulfil my role to the best of my abilities, and when the contract ends I move on to something else.

Obsessing over what other people earn is the path to unhappiness and an ulcer.

[TheFaQQer]

Ill speak to the agency this morning.
going permy is not an option.

I posted asking for help on how to approach the situation.
I dont need to be told to quit, look elsewhere, go permy, etc.
They are the options I have to consider afterwards. Along with possibly a tribunal route under AWR.

When you say permie is not an option - is that in general or just with this client?

Your options (as everyone has said) are pretty limited. You aren't happy and want more money. They don't want to pay any more money. So what can you do to get that money / happiness?

If they left you on the same rate but you did something different / more challenging which would open up new doors in the future, would that appease you? I suspect not given your obsession with what others around you are earning. If you don't want to leave, then you will have to continue being underpaid and unhappy.

Top summarise your options:

- convince the client to take you on permie with a pay rise. Not going to happen.
- convince the client to increase your rate. Unlikely to happen based on past performance.
- find a permie job elsewhere. Chances unknown.
- leave and find another better paying contract. Chances unknown, but you seem reluctant to do that anyway.
- stay where you are and not get an increase. Chances unknown, but based on past performance I'd suggest higher than average.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[RasputinDude]

Ill speak to the agency this morning.
going permy is not an option.

I posted asking for help on how to approach the situation.

You have had it - you demand a rate increase or terminate (if you can). Be prepared for the agent to call your bluff, buff up the old CV and start making contact with pimps.

I dont need to be told to quit, look elsewhere, go permy, etc.

You need to consider all of the options - including quitting, looking elsewhere or going permanent.

if the rate doesn't go up to what you want, then either you stay (as you have before) or you need to quit and look elsewhere There are no other options are there?. Also, don't rule out permy on nothing more than idealogical grounds - if the package is good for you, consider it.

They are the options I have to consider afterwards. Along with possibly a tribunal route under AWR.

Get some serious advice beforehand because I don't think that you'll have a leg to stand on. You'll just throw money at the lawyers. Are you a member of IPSE? If you are, get onto their legal helpline. If not, join, pay your money and then get on to their legal helpline.

[jmo21]

You're seriously asking what to do here?

If you ask for a rate rise (or a permie asks for a salary rise) and they say no, there is little you can do other than call their bluff and hand in your notice.

What the permies or other contractors are on is nothing to do with you. There is no unfairness here.

Yes, you can be annoyed, and try to negotiate, but if they won't budge, there is not much you can do.

[BolshieBastard]

Ill speak to the agency this morning.
going permy is not an option.

I posted asking for help on how to approach the situation.
I dont need to be told to quit, look elsewhere, go permy, etc.
They are the options I have to consider afterwards. Along with possibly a tribunal route under AWR.

What you need to understand is this. You've asked for a rate rise and got none. So, the scenario must be something like this;

AMH to agent. Ive been here 12 months. Im well thought of and produce good work. I want an increase this renewal.
Agent to AMH. Leave it with me I contact client. [Later] Ive spoke to client, they're very happy with you but no extra budget. Will you extend?
AMH to agent. Yeah, ok.

12 months later
AMH to agent. Ive been here 24 months. Im well thought of and produce good work. I want an increase this renewal.
Agent to AMH. Leave it with me I contact client. [Later] Ive spoke to client, they're very happy with you but no extra budget. Will you extend?
AMH to agent. Yeah, ok.

12 months later
AMH to agent. Ive been here 36 months. Im well thought of and produce good work. I want an increase this renewal.
Agent to AMH. Leave it with me I contact client. [Later] Ive spoke to client, they're very happy with you but no extra budget. Will you extend?
AMH to agent. Yeah, ok.

12 months later.
AMH to agent. Ive been here 48 months. Im well thought of and produce good work. I want an increase this renewal.
Agent to AMH. Leave it with me I contact client. [Later] Ive spoke to client, they're very happy with you but no extra budget. Will you extend?
AMH to agent. Yeah, ok.

Mate, they're very unlikely to give you an increase if ever because you keep accepting the extensions. The agent knows you arent going to walk although he will probably realise you're going to leave some day.

You need to wise up your strategy. If you want a rise, you have to tell the agent you'll walk (you may have done this) and be prepared to do if you dont get a decent increase. Clearly, you havent dont this and the agent knows he can just call your bluff.

You might be lucky to get an increase out of him this time but, seeing as you've been at the same client for 4 years, you really should be moving on.

[tarbera]

I bet your agent is charging 100%+ margin on your rate

I remember one contractor working for IBM for 7 years on £60 a hour, when the onsite agent got replaced by one of fixed margin his rate went up to £146 a hour - never forget the look of happiness in his face with the massive rise, to him turn purple within 60 seconds after working out he had lost £1.2million quid, then when IBM discovered (as he made Such a fuss) he had been working for 7 years for £60 they cut his rate to £74 he should have kept stume

[colinrobinson]

Has the scope of work changed

Your best chance of re-negotiation in role is to suggest the scope of the role has changed since you negotiated your original contract .

If it hasn't then you've got little room as you contracted to do x for £y

Another route is to reduce your daily hours effectively a rate increase to get some quality time at home. take fridays off and accept you've got a better life.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Surely a spoof thread? You found out permies were on more, so you want more, so you're going to quit - which means less (i.e. nothing) ? Doesn't make sense.