Contracting in Germany!

[stek]

Can you elaborate what you mean?

From the DTA:

Article 1
Persons covered
This Convention shall apply to persons who are residents of one or both of the Contracting States.

Article 3
General definitions
d) the term "person" includes an individual, a company and any other body of persons;
e) the term "company" means any body corporate or any entity which is treated as a body corporate for tax purposes;

Nothing to do with the DTA, Google the EU Directives especially those on free movement and rights to work etc, they do apply to individuals etc, but not to corporate bodies.

[Midland White]

Nothing to do with the DTA, Google the EU Directives especially those on free movement and rights to work etc, they do apply to individuals etc, but not to corporate bodies.

Thought this thread was to do with taxation rather than free movement of labour.

[stek]

Thought this thread was to do with taxation rather than free movement of labour.

Whoosh.....

[Midland White]

Swish....

[SueEllen]

Thought this thread was to do with taxation rather than free movement of labour.

Instead of arguing with regular posters do a search (using google is the best) on historic threads about those who have been chased by the German tax man.

If you want to work in Germany the way to go about it is as a freelancer (Freiberufler) which means you can also deduct business expenses like stationary, travel, etc.

[Midland White]

Instead of arguing with regular posters do a search (using google is the best) on historic threads about those who have been chased by the German tax man.

If you want to work in Germany the way to go about it is as a freelancer (Freiberufler) which means you can also deduct business expenses like stationary, travel, etc.

Who's arguing? It was a perfectly reasonable question. Being a 'regular poster' is irrelevant. Lighten up!

[BlasterBates]

Can you elaborate what you mean?

From the DTA:

Article 1
Persons covered
This Convention shall apply to persons who are residents of one or both of the Contracting States.

Article 3
General definitions
d) the term "person" includes an individual, a company and any other body of persons;
e) the term "company" means any body corporate or any entity which is treated as a body corporate for tax purposes;

The 183 day rule will determine your residency and as to whether you pay tax on worldwide income. However non-residents pay German tax on income sourced in Germany. Hence the 183 day rule is irrelevant.

As Sue Ellen has pointed out we have posters on here who have been caught out working in Germany for less than 6 months who have had to face criminal prosecution for not declaring their German income.

[Midland White]

Took a look at the operating as a frieberufler. Seems that you need a German Address for registration. Has anyone operated this way whilst staying in Hotels, i.e. will a hotel address suffice if the hotel will allow you to use their address as a c/o?
Can you also claim hotel expenses or do you have have an apartment or such like to claim deduction? It seems you can claim meals for 3 months, so presumably you can claim hotels for at least that period.

As an aside I contacted a company that operates an umbrella (AUG model) and they said they used to operate a frieberufler model but canned it because of the tightening up around disguised employment. I assume it meant too much risk for them but in principle it is no different to making sure you are outside IR35 in the UK?

[EXPATTAX]

Hi, you do need to have a real address to register for tax in Germany and get a tax number. They do check in quite a lot of cases (not all of them) the address you are using when you apply for a tax number. A hotel address is imediately rejected. If you use a regular residential address, they check the residential register to verify that you have indeed registered at this address as a resident (the residential registration is done separately from the tax registration at the local council office). So, if you have not done the residential registration at the council office, they get a bit uneasy and they do randomly check by calling out! Believe it or not. And if your name is not on the door bell or on the post box, they will come back to you in writing and ask questions. And if you do not provide the right answers, they will not give you a tax number. You are probably now asking, well is Mr German Tax Man now totally crazy (of course you are right)? Why would they not give you a tax number and why would they not allow you to pay tax in Germany? Reason is mainly this: There have been an incredible amount of fake and fraudulent VAT setups. Companies register in Germany, do next to no business for the first few months, but claim back huge amounts of input VAT. The tax office used to pay out VAT and before they could do an audit so see why these companies claimed all the VAT, those companies had disappeared again. They lost billions and have become extremely careful.

[expat]

Hi, you do need to have a real address to register for tax in Germany and get a tax number. They do check in quite a lot of cases (not all of them) the address you are using when you apply for a tax number. A hotel address is imediately rejected. If you use a regular residential address, they check the residential register to verify that you have indeed registered at this address as a resident (the residential registration is done separately from the tax registration at the local council office). So, if you have not done the residential registration at the council office, they get a bit uneasy and they do randomly check by calling out! Believe it or not. And if your name is not on the door bell or on the post box, they will come back to you in writing and ask questions. And if you do not provide the right answers, they will not give you a tax number. You are probably now asking, well is Mr German Tax Man now totally crazy (of course you are right)? Why would they not give you a tax number and why would they not allow you to pay tax in Germany? Reason is mainly this: There have been an incredible amount of fake and fraudulent VAT setups. Companies register in Germany, do next to no business for the first few months, but claim back huge amounts of input VAT. The tax office used to pay out VAT and before they could do an audit so see why these companies claimed all the VAT, those companies had disappeared again. They lost billions and have become extremely careful.

So what happens if you do stay in hotels, you do the work, you get paid, you try to pay tax but they won't give you a tax number?