Embedded software and ir35 (french freelance developer)

[rodney266]

Hello,

I'm a french software developer (I do industrial PC development and embedded software, mainly), I have already done many contract. I have a limited company in France.

I would like to do contract in England, near London.

If I'm successfull in finding enough missions, I will definitively move to UK.

I'm looking for some informations. Help is appreciated.

For those who may have been doing contract in embedded software/systems, what is the customer attitude with ir35 ?

Is the customer quite aware of the rules and provide an according organisation to handle or facilitate ir35 ?

Is it to the contractor to set up a whole project management that will avoid him to fall inside ir35, and ask the customer to follow ?

What are the options for a customer in England ? Hire a permanent or a contractor that will have to follow ir35 ? no other options ?

In France there are a lot of IT service company that sends their own permanent employee to customer teams, in this case they work under the customer direction and control, when the mission is finished the IT service company finds them another mission to do.

If the IT service company doesn't have, internally, a profile to do a mission, they look for a contractor and send him instead. If the contractor starts to explain to the client that he he must follow IR35 and moreover ask the client to change it's organisation for him, 90% of the customer I know wont bother to work with the contractor.

That's why I'm curious to know how it works in England in this case.

Many thanks.

[SueEllen]

I don't know about your market but in the UK you must work under through an umbrella company or a limited company. You simply can't work as a freelancer unless your contract is direct and even then most companies will not allow you to do that, to protect themselves from HMRC.

Both umbrella companies or a limited company must be British based otherwise the vast majority of agencies will simply reject you.

In addition when looking for work if you can put a UK number on your CV which you can be contacted on (they aren't hard to get) and skip putting your French address down, otherwise agents will not call you.

I suggest you look at the "First Timers" information on this website (look to the left of the screen under "CUK Navigation") Also google for "professional contractors group" and "sjd accountancy" for their first timers guides. That way you will fully understand how you can work in the UK.

This site should give you information about rates in your skill set.

However you should also google living costs in different parts of the UK. Also be aware that lots of client sites aren't near public transport or are but the links are impossible, so you need to drive.

[sal]

^^ This

Plus customer doesn't care about IR35 as it doesn't concern him. Half of the battle to stay outside IR35 is won in the contract wording and in 95% of the cases your contract is with the agency not the end client. The other half is the actual working practices, where the big problem lies because the majority of the clients are going to try and treat you as a perm. It's up to you, not the customer to try and follow practices that would put you outside IR35.

[BlasterBates]

You've just hit the nail on the head with your description. That is exactly right that is quite normal for companies to sell people to other companies who then treat them as their own employees, and that contractors can do the same but on their own account.

Therein lies a problem as how to distinguish a disguised employee from a true contractor. This is very difficult indeed and any contractor is in danger from HMRC and will have to defend himself. That is why the terms and conditions in the contract are very important. I used to know a "real contractor" who had his own office and was clearly a real business, subcontracting some of the work or employing the odd junior but in my view more the exception.

The big point in the contractor's favour is the small number of investigations i.e. being in a large herd is the best defence.

It's up to you, statistically it is unlikely you'll be investigated. If you are investigated and you've been at a client for a long time then you'll probably have a hard time because they only have one client to look at. If you have short contracts then by the nature of them you'll be less under the control of the client and due to having lots of contracts your risk will be spread.

A positive point in your favour if you only want to come to the UK for a couple of years is that IR35 investigations generally arise from audits and so if you pack up and go back to France I would say that it would be highly unlikely you would end up in one.

[rodney266]

Ok, it's clearer in my mind now.

I think I'm going to send my cv to some recruiting agent that offers contract in my market aera, and if they are interested in my profile I'll ask them a blank contract to have a look at it, it will also be the opportunity to have a discussion with them about all that stuff.

I'll also check about ir35 insurances to see what they can do for me.

Thanks for your advices.