Do you Opt Out?

[malvolio]

Exactly. I don't give a damn about the rest of it. I simply want to be able to sue my contracted client if I have provided services and they don't pay. Not opting out protects that. Maybe some people don't worry much about that risk but it can easily be 2 months + money.

Well if that's what you believe, who am I to argue....

[speling bee]

Well if that's what you believe, who am I to argue....

Tell me how I'm wrong. Please, I really want to know.

[tractor]

....

Well if that's what you believe, who am I to argue....

Most of the agents believe it too. Why do you think they pressure everyone to opt out ?

[speling bee]

Most of the agents believe it too. Why do you think they pressure everyone to opt out ?

I'm happy to admit I may be wrong if someone explains it. I have always understood that:

- If not opted out I can sue my agent if the client does not pay.
- If opted out I may (read will) have a clause that protects the agent from paying me if the client does not pay.

[TheFaQQer]

I'm happy to admit I may be wrong if someone explains it. I have always understood that:

- If not opted out I can sue my agent if the client does not pay.
- If opted out I may (read will) have a clause that protects the agent from paying me if the client does not pay.

That was my understanding as well. If there is an explanation of how that's wrong, then no-one I've seen has convinced me yet.

[tractor]

...

I'm happy to admit I may be wrong if someone explains it. I have always understood that:

- If not opted out I can sue my agent if the client does not pay.
- If opted out I may (read will) have a clause that protects the agent from paying me if the client does not pay.

You are correct, that is why agents move heaven and earth to get you to opt out. You probably won't even need to sue just take the late payment route or fire it off to a debt collector.

[malvolio]

You are correct, that is why agents move heaven and earth to get you to opt out. You probably won't even need to sue just take the late payment route or fire it off to a debt collector.

If your contract say you get paid in n days, then n+1 days is a late payment and the usual remedies apply. Doesn't matter if your opted out or not, it's all about the contract you both agreed to follow.

The Opt Out means the agency doesn't have to pay you if they haven't been paid by their client, assuming there is nothing in the contract to override that (and usually there isn't, but there's no reason not to try and get it put in). The Regs provide that single level of additional protection.

However, even within the Regs, if there is no proof of work done you won't get paid anyway. whether or not the client has paid the agency. Equally if the agency hasn't got the money to pay you on the agreed terms then you have rather more things to worry about.

And it makes zero difference to non-payment at end of contract; usually that's because you've gone early and the client - rightly or wrongly - is covering their costs for replacing the gap you created.

If you're relying on the Regs for security, it's probably a good idea to go and read them or the PCG's detailed guide to them properly.

[speling bee]

You are correct, that is why agents move heaven and earth to get you to opt out. You probably won't even need to sue just take the late payment route or fire it off to a debt collector.

There is a similar issue with brollies as well.

[tractor]

...

If your contract say you get paid in n days, then n+1 days is a late payment and the usual remedies apply. Doesn't matter if your opted out or not, it's all about the contract you both agreed to follow.

The Opt Out means the agency doesn't have to pay you if they haven't been paid by their client, assuming there is nothing in the contract to override that (and usually there isn't, but there's no reason not to try and get it put in). The Regs provide that single level of additional protection.

However, even within the Regs, if there is no proof of work done you won't get paid anyway. whether or not the client has paid the agency. Equally if the agency hasn't got the money to pay you on the agreed terms then you have rather more things to worry about. This is true whether you are opted in or out ergo it is irrelevant.

And it makes zero difference to non-payment at end of contract; usually that's because you've gone early and the client - rightly or wrongly - is covering their costs for replacing the gap you created. This is prohibited by the regs as well - see below.

If you're relying on the Regs for security, it's probably a good idea to go and read them or the PCG's detailed guide to them properly.

You qualify that statement with so many conditions it's nonsensical.

Prohibition on employment businesses withholding payment to work-seekers on certain grounds

12. An employment business shall not, in respect of a work-seeker whom it supplies to a hirer, withhold or threaten to withhold from the work-seeker (whether by means of the inclusion of a term in a contract with the work-seeker or otherwise) the whole or any part of any payment in respect of any work done by the work-seeker on any of the following grounds—

(a)non-receipt of payment from the hirer in respect of the supply of any service provided by the employment business to the hirer; .
(b)the work-seeker’s failure to produce documentary evidence authenticated by the hirer of the fact that the work-seeker has worked during a particular period of time, provided that this provision shall not prevent the employment business from satisfying itself by other means that the work-seeker worked for the particular period in question; .
(c)the work-seeker not having worked during any period other than that to which the payment relates; or .
(d)any matter within the control of the employment business.

Seems pretty clear to me and it wouldn't be so hard to prove attendance if that was what was required.

PCG advice is just that - advice, it's up to you whether you take it or not. I won't post the PCG advice because it is probably copyright protected but any member can go look for themselves.

Remind me again of the benefits of opting out? Because I have been looking at this for a couple of weeks now and I have yet to justify it.

[speling bee]

If your contract say you get paid in n days, then n+1 days is a late payment and the usual remedies apply. Doesn't matter if your opted out or not, it's all about the contract you both agreed to follow.

The Opt Out means the agency doesn't have to pay you if they haven't been paid by their client, assuming there is nothing in the contract to override that (and usually there isn't, but there's no reason not to try and get it put in). The Regs provide that single level of additional protection.

However, even within the Regs, if there is no proof of work done you won't get paid anyway. whether or not the client has paid the agency. Equally if the agency hasn't got the money to pay you on the agreed terms then you have rather more things to worry about.

And it makes zero difference to non-payment at end of contract; usually that's because you've gone early and the client - rightly or wrongly - is covering their costs for replacing the gap you created.

If you're relying on the Regs for security, it's probably a good idea to go and read them or the PCG's detailed guide to them properly.

And that is the single level of protection that I want. I can go to court if needs be and have my day in front of the judge, and I need to prove on the balance of probabilities that I worked n professional working days. A much better situation than the agency knowing that they don't have to pay me and there is nothing I can do about it.