Zero chance of a sensible Brexit amidst the pandemonium and hysteria at Westminster

[Mordac]

Sadly, from the very outset, a large tranche of self-serving Remainer MPs have done everything they possibly could to derail and undermine any attempt at proper robust negotiation.

The MPs have only become brave enough to do so now thanks to the actions of the civil service, who have been on active sabotage duty from day one. It's no accident that a civil servant became chief negotiator, we may or may not find out one day how that actually happened, but it was certainly planned and intended.

[meridian]

Because to anyone impartial with an ounce of wit, that is quite clearly the case.

Sadly, from the very outset, a large tranche of self-serving Remainer MPs have done everything they possibly could to derail and undermine any attempt at proper robust negotiation.

Having sensed the fear and cowardice simply oozing from the pores of the millions of petulant churlish remoaners, and with the sterling work done by fifth columnists like Bliar, Mandelson, and Kinnock etc., they have emboldened the EU negotiators every step of the way.

It is a little sad to see how spineless and rudderless our Parliament actually is.
That being the case, it almost seems pointless continuing with this clusterf*ck.

Perhaps we should just accept that our Parliamentarians are too incompetent and/or self-centred to ever deliver what the people asked of them, and bin the whole thing before we become any more of a worldwide joke?

Blah blah blah, someone else’s fault.

You’re conveniently forgetting that a wafer-thin majority, which should have led to seeking a consensus option, was taken by the right as “winner takes all”. This alienated remainers and galvanised opposition.

Or the brainless Brexit crusaders, Fox, Davis, Raab, et al that sought to convince you all that there were only upsides and no downsides, and that it would all be so easy.

Or that despite being told what the EU would give you, you thought that the U.K. held all the cards. Wrong again.

Or that the history of Brexit from 2010 through to 2016 would have told you that as soon as any version of Brexit is written down in any detail it loses support even from arch Brexiters. Cummings and Banks knew this, which is why the campaign was on generalisations and not specifics.

And still, after all that, Brexiters take no ownership for the cluster**** that they created and that they voted for.

If the U.K. is a joke, it’s because there was never a consensus approach to a reasonable exiting position, and Brexiters cheered this on. You cheered on the “we won, you lost” mantra, you cheered on May triggering A50 without a plan, you cheered on every time UK politicians publicly stuck two fingers up at the EU without considering the consequences. You own it.

[Yorkie62]

Blah blah blah, someone else’s fault.

You’re conveniently forgetting that a wafer-thin majority, which should have led to seeking a consensus option, was taken by the right as “winner takes all”. This alienated remainers and galvanised opposition.

Or the brainless Brexit crusaders, Fox, Davis, Raab, et al that sought to convince you all that there were only upsides and no downsides, and that it would all be so easy.

Or that despite being told what the EU would give you, you thought that the U.K. held all the cards. Wrong again.

Or that the history of Brexit from 2010 through to 2016 would have told you that as soon as any version of Brexit is written down in any detail it loses support even from arch Brexiters. Cummings and Banks knew this, which is why the campaign was on generalisations and not specifics.

And still, after all that, Brexiters take no ownership for the cluster**** that they created and that they voted for.

If the U.K. is a joke, it’s because there was never a consensus approach to a reasonable exiting position, and Brexiters cheered this on. You cheered on the “we won, you lost” mantra, you cheered on May triggering A50 without a plan, you cheered on every time UK politicians publicly stuck two fingers up at the EU without considering the consequences. You own it.

Fine, then let us own it. Let us leave this Friday with or without a deal. It is the remainers in parliament that refuse to let the Brexiteers own the decision. It is the remainers that are without doubt to blame for the current abomination. If you want Brexiteers to own Brexit then let us leave on Friday. Let me know if you want Brexiteers to own this problem or are you happy to continue with the status quo.

[Old Greg]

Fine, then let us own it. Let us leave this Friday with or without a deal. It is the remainers in parliament that refuse to let the Brexiteers own the decision. It is the remainers that are without doubt to blame for the current abomination. If you want Brexiteers to own Brexit then let us leave on Friday. Let me know if you want Brexiteers to own this problem or are you happy to continue with the status quo.

Or just let the adults sort out your mess. Yes, that would be best at this stage.

[Yorkie62]

Or just let the adults sort out your mess. Yes, that would be best at this stage.

Adults?????? Which adults are you referring to? Where are they? None in the remain camp I have seen yet!

Yvette Coopers Election promises:

1) I Voted to Trigger Article 50 in Parliament
2) I want to Reform freedom of movement
3) I will not block brexit
4) I want to secure the best deal for the Five Towns not just the cities

Definitely seems to have forgotten about pledge number 3, anyone know what are the Five Towns and how did they vote in the referendum?

[Old Greg]

Adults?????? Which adults are you referring to? Where are they? None in the remain camp I have seen yet!

Plenty of adults in parliament but you cannot see them through your gammon tinted spectacles.

You should be pointing your finger at the ERG. If they had all voted for the withdrawal agreement, the UK would have left the EU by now with a smooth transition, and would now be negotiating a future relationship. But no, that wasn't good enough for them and they've now thrown their toys out of the pram with their threats of 'Perfidious Albion on speed'. And the UK is still a member of the EU.

Go back to ranting on the Mail (I posted a link on how to do this on the gammon thread) and let the adults clean up your mess. Or stay if you like. You do amuse us smug metropolitan elitists.

[Yorkie62]

Plenty of adults in parliament but you cannot see them through your gammon tinted spectacles.

You should be pointing your finger at the ERG. If they had all voted for the withdrawal agreement, the UK would have left the EU by now with a smooth transition, and would now be negotiating a future relationship. But no, that wasn't good enough for them and they've now thrown their toys out of the pram with their threats of 'Perfidious Albion on speed'. And the UK is still a member of the EU.

Go back to ranting on the Mail (I posted a link on how to do this on the gammon thread) and let the adults clean up your mess. Or stay if you like. You do amuse us smug metropolitan elitists.

All words and no substance again

[Old Greg]

All words and no substance again

Nothing to say about your adult friends in the ERG?

[Yorkie62]

Nothing to say about your adult friends in the ERG?

I wasn't aware that I had any friends in the ERG, or any other politically affiliated group for that matter.

[Old Greg]

Yvette Coopers Election promises:

1) I Voted to Trigger Article 50 in Parliament
2) I want to Reform freedom of movement
3) I will not block brexit
4) I want to secure the best deal for the Five Towns not just the cities

Definitely seems to have forgotten about pledge number 3, anyone know what are the Five Towns and how did they vote in the referendum?

Re your addendum to original post: Yvette Cooper is not trying to block Brexit, she is trying to block no deal and extend Article 50. This gives time for the adults to sort out the children's mess while the children shout about Perfidious Albion on speed.