Revoke Brexit now!

[DimPrawn]

I want the Macron vision of the EU!

Emmanuel Macron calls for 'EU renaissance' ahead of polls - BBC News

He describes the EU as "not just an economic market" but a "project", before going on to set out his "roadmap for the EU".

In his open letter to Europe, Mr Macron proposes the creation of several new bodies that would oversee change within the EU. They are:

European Agency for the Protection of Democracies, to protect against cyber attacks, the spread of fake news, and to ban foreign powers from funding European political parties

European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide border force agency and asylum office, and a European security council that would have "the UK on board"

An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"

European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"

A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"

A Conference for Europe, which Mr Macron wants the EU to set up by the end of this year, so that changes can be proposed and approved by representatives from EU institutions and member states

Protect us and protect the EU! More powers for Brussels! More sinister ways to ensure the EU controls every aspect of everything! Stop "fake" news and eliminate those that "attack" the EU!

Vive La EU!

[Yorkie62]

I want the Macron vision of the EU!

...Protect us and protect the EU! More powers for Brussels! More sinister ways to ensure the EU controls every aspect of everything! Stop "fake" news and eliminate those that "attack" the EU!

Vive La EU!

Does this include anyone, EU citizen that opposes the EU. What does "attack" mean. It can take many forms, from a verbal attack to a more physical attack. Is he including anyone that wears a yellow vest? Eliminate sound very terminal. Sounds like Macron intends to take on Vlad .

[meridian]

Revoke Brexit now!

Does this include anyone, EU citizen that opposes the EU. What does "attack" mean. It can take many forms, from a verbal attack to a more physical attack. Is he including anyone that wears a yellow vest? Eliminate sound very terminal. Sounds like Macron intends to take on Vlad .

I think you’ve mistaken Dim’s opinion for a quote from Macron. The multiple exclamation marks should have given it away.

[meridian]

I want the Macron vision of the EU!

Emmanuel Macron calls for 'EU renaissance' ahead of polls - BBC News



In his open letter to Europe, Mr Macron proposes the creation of several new bodies that would oversee change within the EU. They are:

European Agency for the Protection of Democracies, to protect against cyber attacks, the spread of fake news, and to ban foreign powers from funding European political parties

European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide border force agency and asylum office, and a European security council that would have "the UK on board"

An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"

European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"

A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"

A Conference for Europe, which Mr Macron wants the EU to set up by the end of this year, so that changes can be proposed and approved by representatives from EU institutions and member states

Protect us and protect the EU! More powers for Brussels! More sinister ways to ensure the EU controls every aspect of everything! Stop "fake" news and eliminate those that "attack" the EU!

Vive La EU!

Out of interest, which one(s) on that list do you think are wrong to pursue in at least some small measure?

[Bean]

Out of interest, which one(s) on that list do you think are wrong to pursue in at least some small measure?

European Agency for the Protection of Democracies, to protect against cyber attacks, the spread of fake news, and to ban foreign powers from funding European political parties
Aren't these very similar to policies in force in more 'nasty' regimes, like Russia & China?

European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide border force agency and asylum office, and a European security council that would have "the UK on board"
Sounds like they want to supersede member state border forces and also, that they want our access vis-a-vis '5 eyes' intelligence

An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"
There's evidence to suggest that the minimum wage has an inverse effect on job creation, i.e. higher minimum wage = less jobs

European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"
Sounds like another budget folder got added to the coffers, instead of just implementing directives for member states to follow and pay for directly

A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"
That almost sounds like some kind of protectionism, lol

A Conference for Europe, which Mr Macron wants the EU to set up by the end of this year, so that changes can be proposed and approved by representatives from EU institutions and member states
Need further details on this, to see what the proposed areas under review and the mechanism proposed

[original PM]

Sadly I think Macron (and Merkels) roadmap for Europe is really the roadmap for keeping the EU alive in Europe at all costs.

[meridian]

European Agency for the Protection of Democracies, to protect against cyber attacks, the spread of fake news, and to ban foreign powers from funding European political parties
Aren't these very similar to policies in force in more 'nasty' regimes, like Russia & China?

Logical fallacy. They're also similar to policies in force in many other countries. Within the UK, for example, donations to political parties can only be made by individuals who are on the electoral register or UK companies that are registered, incorporated in the European Union and are trading in the UK.

A joint agency to combat cyber attacks seems reasonable to me. Fake news not so much. Foreign funding of political parties is, as above, already illegal in member states so seems reasonable to have that at an EP level also.

European Council for Internal Security, which would comprise a Europe-wide border force agency and asylum office, and a European security council that would have "the UK on board"
Sounds like they want to supersede member state border forces and also, that they want our access vis-a-vis '5 eyes' intelligence

Or it sounds like they want to formalise the co-operation between EU member states on e.g. asylum seekers. There's already a huge amount of co-operation in the Med for refugee boats, an agency to formalise this seems reasonable.

Border force perhaps not so much, member states should retain complete control of their own borders except where they have already delegated that control (e.g. within Schengen).

An EU minimum wage, which would be "appropriate to each country" and negotiated collectively on an annual basis, and a guarantee that EU citizens would get "the same pay for the same work"
There's evidence to suggest that the minimum wage has an inverse effect on job creation, i.e. higher minimum wage = less jobs

Or, alternatively, higher minimum wage in say Romania / Lithuania leads to reduced migration within the EU member states.

Note that he doesn't say "higher", but I agree that that's the implication for certain states, and for others they would remain the same. Rebalanced.

Negotiated collectively sort of makes sense to have an overall strategy on minimum wages across the member states (just a larger scale version of having a strategy within the UK that covers the difference in parity between say Scotland and London), but with the disparity between Left and Right on what minimum wages should be this is probably not workable.

Same pay for the same work is an interesting one. Does he mean that EU citizens in the same location as member state citizens get the same pay (already covered under anti-discrimination laws) or does he mean that a Slovakian plumber should get paid the same as a London plumber? I don't think that's workable or feasible.

European Climate Bank, which would finance the EU's transition to his suggested environmental targets, "zero carbon by 2050 and pesticides halved by 2025"
Sounds like another budget folder got added to the coffers, instead of just implementing directives for member states to follow and pay for directly

Tend to agree on this one. Another bank, to rack up more debt? Seems iffy.

A European food safety force, to "improve our food controls" and protect them from the "lobby threat" with "independent scientific assessment of substances hazardous to the environment and health"
That almost sounds like some kind of protectionism, lol

It cuts both ways. There are other threads here where people complain about "the EU" not doing anything to enforce food safety. There are opportunities for "the EU" to use science-based assessments of, for example, GMOs. Increased understanding of the long term effects of pesticides would be welcome. These are already included in individual research grants, but an overall agency might tie all the research together.

A Conference for Europe, which Mr Macron wants the EU to set up by the end of this year, so that changes can be proposed and approved by representatives from EU institutions and member states
Need further details on this, to see what the proposed areas under review and the mechanism proposed

Agreed. Who would those "representatives" be, how would they differ from heads of state (EU Council) or MEPs (European Parliament) or EU Committees (MEPs)?

[Bean]

Logical fallacy. They're also similar to policies in force in many other countries. Within the UK, for example, donations to political parties can only be made by individuals who are on the electoral register or UK companies that are registered, incorporated in the European Union and are trading in the UK.

A joint agency to combat cyber attacks seems reasonable to me. Fake news not so much. Foreign funding of political parties is, as above, already illegal in member states so seems reasonable to have that at an EP level also.

So he's proposing an agency to fulfil a problem, that already has rules governing it in multiple member states? aka a quango. I think Macron is proposing the logical fallacy
Ah, Misinterpreted it, Yes, EP level seems reasonable.

Or it sounds like they want to formalise the co-operation between EU member states on e.g. asylum seekers. There's already a huge amount of co-operation in the Med for refugee boats, an agency to formalise this seems reasonable.

Border force perhaps not so much, member states should retain complete control of their own borders except where they have already delegated that control (e.g. within Schengen).

But it seems reasonable, that they are implying you get both, not one or the other - so I guess it depends whether you'd throw out the baby with the bathwater or not

Or, alternatively, higher minimum wage in say Romania / Lithuania leads to reduced migration within the EU member states.

Note that he doesn't say "higher", but I agree that that's the implication for certain states, and for others they would remain the same. Rebalanced.

Negotiated collectively sort of makes sense to have an overall strategy on minimum wages across the member states (just a larger scale version of having a strategy within the UK that covers the difference in parity between say Scotland and London), but with the disparity between Left and Right on what minimum wages should be this is probably not workable.

Same pay for the same work is an interesting one. Does he mean that EU citizens in the same location as member state citizens get the same pay (already covered under anti-discrimination laws) or does he mean that a Slovakian plumber should get paid the same as a London plumber? I don't think that's workable or feasible.

Agree with plenty of points in your reply here, but would just suggest that, an overall strategy would only work on a global level, otherwise non-eu migration will still remain high - especially from sub-Saharan Africa.
I especially agree, it's completely unfeasible to try and level wages across countries for the same job, like in your plumber example - but hey ho, a politician suggesting something unachievable, it's not new.

Tend to agree on this one. Another bank, to rack up more debt? Seems iffy.

Indeed, watch this space eh

It cuts both ways. There are other threads here where people complain about "the EU" not doing anything to enforce food safety. There are opportunities for "the EU" to use science-based assessments of, for example, GMOs. Increased understanding of the long term effects of pesticides would be welcome. These are already included in individual research grants, but an overall agency might tie all the research together.

Yes it does, but I was just focused on the 'lobby threat' irony, given the EU has publicly warned of protectionism vis-à-vis el Donald.
I agree on the pesticides.
As for an(other) agency, don't the research grants go to Universities etc... so would they be losing out?

Agreed. Who would those "representatives" be, how would they differ from heads of state (EU Council) or MEPs (European Parliament) or EU Committees (MEPs)?

Exactly, very woolly at this point - but probably just more of a fop to try and gain some Eurosceptic votes for himself

[Bean]

Sadly I think Macron (and Merkels) roadmap for Europe is really the roadmap for keeping the EU alive in Europe at all costs.

To paraphrase an MEP in a debate;
For you (Juncker, Tusk, etc), the answer is always more Europe...

[BlasterBates]

Quite funny to see all the EU hysteria on a thread in a country that will have left in a few weeks.

...and nowhere else