Que será, será

[Whorty]

So you are ok with slavery then?

The argument is thus.

Everyone is free to chose a career.

Therefore everyone is free not to chose a career in healthcare

Therefore if there are no people working in healthcare and you believe healthcare is a human right the therefore some people must be forced into slavery to work in healthcare.

The actual larger argument is you cannot have a basic human right which requires the effort of others.

FFS

[JohntheBike]

Is one of the changes you would like to see the near elimination of manufacturing in the British economy and for jobs to be mainly in industries such as design and marketing?

the EU has already mainly achieved that when compared with the situation prior to us joining the EU. Ford don't make a private car here in the UK any longer. Most of our traditional marques have disappeared. In the 1960's, only 1 in 10 cars on our roads was made abroad, now it's difficult to spot a car made in this country.

There is an argument that our car industry suffered demise for quality, reliability and production issues, but my contention is that if we had not been part of the EU, the likes of Ford etc. would have found it more difficult to switch manufacturing to the EU.

If we take the quality issue, then that can easily be countered by cost. Dacia cars are popular, not because of their quality or reliability aspects, but because they are cheap to buy. The same situation would have endured with our products if we had not joined the EU. In the 60's a Renault tin can (Floride/Caravelle) was the same price here as a MK2 Jaguar. Whatever quality or reliability issues you direct at the Jaguar, it was a far better car than the Renault, and also cheaper.

If you go to Germany, then you can't fail to notice that all Government department related cars are either Audis, BMWs or Mercedes. The same is true for Italy. Most are Fiats or Alfas. France is exactly the same. Most official cars are Renaults, Citroens or Peugeots.

Apart from Mrs' May's Jaguar, most cabinet Ministers cars appear to be BMWs. Do you think the Germans would use Jaguars? Hardly.

The same is true of our Police forces. The majority of vehicles are BMWs. None of this would have happened if we had not been members of the EU.

[meridian]

the EU has already mainly achieved that when compared with the situation prior to us joining the EU. Ford don't make a private car here in the UK any longer. Most of our traditional marques have disappeared. In the 1960's, only 1 in 10 cars on our roads was made abroad, now it's difficult to spot a car made in this country.

There is an argument that our car industry suffered demise for quality, reliability and production issues, but my contention is that if we had not been part of the EU, the likes of Ford etc. would have found it more difficult to switch manufacturing to the EU.

If we take the quality issue, then that can easily be countered by cost. Dacia cars are popular, not because of their quality or reliability aspects, but because they are cheap to buy. The same situation would have endured with our products if we had not joined the EU. In the 60's a Renault tin can (Floride/Caravelle) was the same price here as a MK2 Jaguar. Whatever quality or reliability issues you direct at the Jaguar, it was a far better car than the Renault, and also cheaper.

If you go to Germany, then you can't fail to notice that all Government department related cars are either Audis, BMWs or Mercedes. The same is true for Italy. Most are Fiats or Alfas. France is exactly the same. Most official cars are Renaults, Citroens or Peugeots.

Apart from Mrs' May's Jaguar, most cabinet Ministers cars appear to be BMWs. Do you think the Germans would use Jaguars? Hardly.

The same is true of our Police forces. The majority of vehicles are BMWs. None of this would have happened if we had not been members of the EU.

Yes, of course it's all the EU's fault that we make crap unreliable cars and we charge more for them, and that our government departments don't want to buy our expensive crap unreliable cars.

[JohntheBike]

Yes, of course it's all the EU's fault that we make crap unreliable cars and we charge more for them, and that our government departments don't want to buy our expensive crap unreliable cars.

"we charge more for them"

they would have been significantly less costly if we had not joined the UK, which as I've indicated with the Dacia example, would have over-ridden any quality/reliability issues.

Just to demonstrate.

In 1973 I toured the Continent by car. There I met up with an IT professional in Holland and we discussed salaries and the cost of living etc. I was working shifts as a supervisor of a large computer bureau, with 11 people reporting to me. He was a programmer workings days if I remember correctly. His salary was well over twice as much as mine, although his living expenses were much higher also. However, he was driving a Mercedes which would have been impossible for me to buy in this country. Yes, the Mercedes was probably a much better car that the BL offering I was driving, but it was also more than double the cost. So price will always defeat the quality/reliability argument. This is why we buy so much these days from third World countries.

[meridian]

"we charge more for them"

they would have been significantly less costly if we had not joined the UK, which as I've indicated with the Dacia example, would have over-ridden any quality/reliability issues.

Just to demonstrate.

In 1973 I toured the Continent by car. There I met up with an IT professional in Holland and we discussed salaries and the cost of living etc. I was working shifts as a supervisor of a large computer bureau, with 11 people reporting to me. He was a programmer workings days if I remember correctly. His salary was well over twice as much as mine, although his living expenses were much higher also. However, he was driving a Mercedes which would have been impossible for me to buy in this country. Yes, the Mercedes was probably a much better car that the BL offering I was driving, but it was also more than double the cost. So price will always defeat the quality/reliability argument. This is why we buy so much these days from third World countries.

You've demonstrated nothing but unrelated waffle.

HTH.

[JohntheBike]

You've demonstrated nothing but unrelated waffle.

HTH.

losing the argument then!

It is said that the "oldies" swung the referendum vote, and I'm demonstrating one aspect of why some might have been influenced.

[Old Greg]

You've demonstrated nothing but unrelated waffle.

HTH.

Just Bridgwater sockie fare. Best mocked or ignored.