• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Theresa survives - badly wounded though

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #41
    Originally posted by Yorkie62 View Post
    Much negative rhetoric as also presented by the leave side. For Example, we were told by the then chancellor of the exchequer that there would be financial Armageddon the day after the referendum if we voted to leave. Didn't happen. Truth is, it was the worst campaign run ever by both side. Even now both sides are still not presenting the whole truth because no one actually knows what that truth is and they are only interesting in trying to make the other side look as bad as possible because they cannot talk up the positives of their own argument.

    Why did I vote to leave? because in my opinion, and that is equally valid as the next man/woman/transgender person, I don't think we, the UK, get a particularly good deal out of the EU. I also believe that there is no point being a member of a club (The EU) and only ever standing in the doorway. Your voice will never be heard. If we want to be in the EU then we should be in, lock stock and Euro.
    You haven't answered the question, you've only confirmed what I said - that the negative rhetoric was from the Remain side.

    Show me anything from the Leave side that was honest about any negative consequences of leaving.

    Comment


      #42
      Originally posted by Whorty View Post
      Not correct ... there are roughly 500 MPs who don't support a no deal crash, and roughly 150 who do (or might do). Parliament can choose to vote on taking no deal off the table. If they do this (and this is what Labour are pushing for) then it follows that as we get closer to March, if there is still not an agreed deal on the table then either A50 is revoked or extended.

      Without a 2nd ref I don't believe many MPs will want to revoke A50, so most likely scenario is A50 is extended. This may then lead into a GE (with a break off Tory party led by Nigel?).

      Don't forget, this is not all about the Tories. Labour need the SNP and the smaller parties if they want to form a government, Labour are controlled by unions, none of these want a crash out no deal. Parliament therefore has a majority for a deal of sorts.

      There is no way anything will be done in the 8 weeks between the 'meaningful vote' and the end of march. The repeal bill to take us out was brutal and took a year. 180 ish amendments.

      Now it is law expect to see any change challenged in the courts by some Gina Miller type. Expect the brexiters in the party to try and force a GE in that period to run down the clock.

      People can waffle all they want about stuff being on the table and off the table. This ship has sailed and the only option other than hard Brexit is voting for the transition and backstop which won't happen.

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by meridian View Post
        You haven't answered the question, you've only confirmed what I said - that the negative rhetoric was from the Remain side.

        Show me anything from the Leave side that was honest about any negative consequences of leaving.
        Isn't that my point, rather than focusing on the negative rhetoric of leaving the Remain side should have talked up the positives of staying. They couldn't be honest about the negatives of leaving because no one has any idea on how the financial markets will react. We still don't know that information. However, they could, and should, have talked up the positives of staying in the EU. They didn't and they lost.

        Comment


          #44
          Oh and the unions are desperate for a hard Brexit no mat6er what they publicly say. Free from the shackles of EU competition law it will be renationalisation and the mother of state aid Christmases.

          Be like jumping into a DeLorean and heading back to the 70s

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by minestrone View Post
            Oh and the unions are desperate for a hard Brexit no mat6er what they publicly say. Free from the shackles of EU competition law it will be renationalisation and the mother of state aid Christmases.

            Be like jumping into a DeLorean and heading back to the 70s
            How do you know that is what they are desperate for?

            They are at least as likely to be concerned at an ERG type move to restrict workers' protections, Britannia Unchained style.

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by meridian View Post
              You haven't answered the question, you've only confirmed what I said - that the negative rhetoric was from the Remain side.

              Show me anything from the Leave side that was honest about any negative consequences of leaving.
              The remain side didn't need to prove anything, UK was already in it was up to leavers to present a viable case that it was better to leave than stay, apart from a load of nonsense about giving the health service more money and taking control of our money , laws and borders which only ever seem to have become a major issue since the referendum and could be dismissed by asking yourself just a few simple questions like what laws? that I realised most of the leaver arguments were just hype with very little substance behind them. Add in Boris Johnson the prince of buffoonery talking about getting better trade deals with other countries, which he would not know were better until the deals were done, and you have no argument to leave.
              Warning unicorn meat may give you hallucinations

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by minestrone View Post
                There is no way anything will be done in the 8 weeks between the 'meaningful vote' and the end of march. The repeal bill to take us out was brutal and took a year. 180 ish amendments.

                Now it is law expect to see any change challenged in the courts by some Gina Miller type. Expect the brexiters in the party to try and force a GE in that period to run down the clock.

                People can waffle all they want about stuff being on the table and off the table. This ship has sailed and the only option other than hard Brexit is voting for the transition and backstop which won't happen.
                I guess only time will tell for sure ... but MPs in the house seem pretty sure that A50 can be revoked or extended. The debates last week also ensured that when the government lost 3 votes, ensuring that parliament can vote on the final deal (or to revoke or extend A50). Parliament makes laws, and hence also has the ability to change laws. I agree time is short, but where there is a will (and there in with the majority of MPs to avoid a hard no deal Brexit) then there is a way.

                The ERG know all this. Farage knows all this. Hence why both are in a panic and trying everything in their power to throw rocks at what they see as the inevitable end game. They've lost, they just haven't accepted that fact yet.
                I am what I drink, and I'm a bitter man

                Comment


                  #48
                  Originally posted by Yorkie62 View Post
                  Isn't that what democracy is about. You give people the available choices on how to leave the EU. Present the arguments for both, and let them vote.
                  Originally posted by Yorkie62 View Post
                  Isn't that my point, rather than focusing on the negative rhetoric of leaving the Remain side should have talked up the positives of staying. They couldn't be honest about the negatives of leaving because no one has any idea on how the financial markets will react. We still don't know that information. However, they could, and should, have talked up the positives of staying in the EU. They didn't and they lost.
                  Then how do you reconcile your two statements?

                  You say that you want to give people the available choices on how to leave the EU, but yet you're only applying any balance of evidence to one side?

                  If Leave are campaigning to leave, but not presenting the full picture on what that entails and what is both positive and negative about the consequences, then how can you say that this is what democracy is about and that we have been presented with the arguments for both?

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Originally posted by Old Greg View Post
                    How do you know that is what they are desperate for?

                    They are at least as likely to be concerned at an ERG type move to restrict workers' protections, Britannia Unchained style.

                    Watching Len McCluskey furiously triangulate to back whatever option looks most likely to run down the clock.

                    Right now it is "we might back a second vote but only if it is the May deal of no deal, we do not support May's deal".

                    Might be reading between the lines here but...

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by motoukenin View Post
                      The remain side didn't need to prove anything, UK was already in it was up to leavers to present a viable case that it was better to leave than stay, apart from a load of nonsense about giving the health service more money and taking control of our money , laws and borders which only ever seem to have become a major issue since the referendum and could be dismissed by asking yourself just a few simple questions like what laws? that I realised most of the leaver arguments were just hype with very little substance behind them. Add in Boris Johnson the prince of buffoonery talking about getting better trade deals with other countries, which he would not know were better until the deals were done, and you have no argument to leave.
                      Ok well if you have every actually spoken to any one who voted Brexit you will know it was none of the above things

                      We just wanted to leave the EU because we did not want to be part of the EU, because we felt it would be better for the UK if we left the EU.

                      And I get tired of pointless people like you who keep bringing up Boris and the bus - it is no different than the remains lies about how the economy would tank if we voted Brexit - that was the real scaremongering.

                      The fact is all of the remainers are scared of change - and that is apparent.

                      They have also proved themselves as being unable to take part in a rational discussion and accept that they were able to put their point forward but not everyone agrees with them.

                      And now they seem to lack the basic level of understanding that the point where they could sway the decision is now long gone, the longer they drag their feet and act like spoiled children who did not get their own way the more the rest of the country, remainers and brexiters alike, will view them in their true light and treat them with the utter disdain they deserve.
                      Last edited by original PM; 13 December 2018, 12:14.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X