Britain has backed itself into a corner

[Bean]

There's a difference between a political body getting involved with a conflict inside/outside the EU and

blaming the EU for every conflict ever.

So stop the strawman arguments and address the point

[northernladyuk]

Yeah my bad, but wait;
"Legal entities from Associated Countries can participate"

So they are all associated countries yes?

Anyway, my point is that the EU is getting involved in conflicts - and therefore is not necessarily a force for peace.

Do you mean countries associated with Horizon 2020, or countries with as association agreement with the EU? If the former, then what is the relevance of research and innovation cooperation to EU claims to preserve of peace? If the latter, the EU would not make any claims to preserve peace in countries such as Chile.

Or do you mean something else?

[WTFH]

Yeah my bad, but wait;
"Legal entities from Associated Countries can participate"

So they are all associated countries yes?

Anyway, my point is that the EU is getting involved in conflicts - and therefore is not necessarily a force for peace.

Strawman argument.

You’re saying that any country that enters into an association that the EU is part of, is therefore a de facto member of the EU.

Try telling the US that.

[Bean]

Do you mean countries associated with Horizon 2020, or countries with as association agreement with the EU? If the former, then what is the relevance of research and innovation cooperation to EU claims to preserve of peace? If the latter, the EU would not make any claims to preserve peace in countries such as Chile.

Or do you mean something else?

Something else.

The latter. (To show the EU is linked to these areas, even if they are not 'Full' member states)

Although I'm disputing people posting on here about the EU being a force for peace, not the EU itself claiming to be so.

HTH

[milanbenes]

FTFY

And never forget:

Thanks, please delete the post otherwise they'll all be in on it

Ok, off to Makro to stock up

Back in a bit

Milan.

[Bean]

Strawman argument.

You’re saying that any country that enters into an association that the EU is part of, is therefore a de facto member of the EU.

Try telling the US that.

That's not what I'm saying. Keep reading.

oh and
Did the EU intervention in the Ukraine situation help or hinder the ending of the conflict?

[WTFH]

Someone spiked your coffee?

I'll ask a simple question to you, let's see if you can give a simple answer;

Did the EU intervention in the Ukraine situation help or hinder the ending of the conflict?

Simple answer: The conflict hasn’t ended.

More complex question: What do you mean by the “EU intervention in the Ukraine”?

[northernladyuk]

Something else.

The latter. (To show the EU is linked to these areas, even if they are not 'Full' member states)

Although I'm disputing people posting on here about the EU being a force for peace, not the EU itself claiming to be so.

HTH

It is not that they are not 'full' member states. They are in no way member states. They have just entered into various agreements with the EU. It's really difficult to see what your point is around these 'associate countries', the EU and peace. Help us out.

[Bean]

Simple answer: The conflict hasn’t ended.

More complex question: What do you mean by the “EU intervention in the Ukraine”?

Nice sidestep, let's change the tense;

Is it helping or hindering?


Without trying to rehash the entire democracy in Ukraine argument,

The EU sells the Ukraine a pup, saying we will welcome you, publicly,
This forces Ukraine to effectively choose the EU over Russia,
The some protests happen and a president is ousted through non-democratic means,
Then the EU updates the pup, to say actually it'll be many, many years away from membership,
Then Russia starts the bullsh,
The the EU threatens sanctions on Russia/Russians etc

So, did the EU hinder or help the situation here? (even if the conflict is ongoing)

Also, it could be argued that it's a 'good for goose, good for gander' scenario, with regards to the ousted president and the subsequent elections in Crimea
(https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...denceFINAL.pdf - "39% of the Germans support the recognition of Crimea as part of Russia" - wow )
That link ^ also has people giving evidence to the Lords, whereby they are stating there is no common position in the EU towards Russia, I'm sure that helped.

[Bean]

It is not that they are not 'full' member states. They are in no way member states. They have just entered into various agreements with the EU. It's really difficult to see what your point is around these 'associate countries', the EU and peace. Help us out.

Well simply put, I want to know from the posters who posit the EU as a facilitator of peace - is it only full member states that get to benefit from the wings of the peaceful dove, that is the EU - or associate countries too, any country on which the EU make statements about, or the entire globe?