Brexit rebellion building in Parliament

[BlasterBates]

Parliamentary fightback against Brexit on cards | Politics | The Guardian

Best of three.

[jamesbrown]

Are you still at Stage 2?

[GB9]

Are you still at Stage 2?

I think some are still at Stage 1. Fortunately a lot seem to have moved on.

[jamesbrown]

I think some are still at Stage 1. Fortunately a lot seem to have moved on.

It's hard to lose.

But, it's worth taking a step back and thinking about how this is going to work at the most elementary level. There will be a new Tory PM. They will invoke Article 50. There is no parliamentary approval of that process, it is for the Gov't to invoke in a speech or letter. Once invoked, the two-year process begins. Any agreement with the EU will need to be approved by parliament, but the Gov't is the executive and decides what to propose, not parliament. If a proposal is not approved within two years, we've left, regardless. So, barring a massive climbdown from the EU in which they offer something like EEA without freedom of movement (not going to happen), there is no scenario in which Article 50 is not invoked and, once invoked, no scenario in which we will remain. After we've left, try arguing for renewed membership on the basis of the Euro and Schengen Area Pretty soon, this is all going to sink in. The next ~2 years is about deciding the nature of our relationship outside the EU, not whether we're going. Let's be honest, they don't really want us at this point, anyway. We've fecked them around for far too long (seriously, I'd be peed off with us too).

[Old Greg]

Parliamentary fightback against Brexit on cards | Politics | The Guardian

Best of three.

As long as Parliament is making our decisions, that is all we ever asked.

[GB9]

It's hard to lose.

But, it's worth taking a step back and thinking about how this is going to work at the most elementary level. There will be a new Tory PM. They will invoke Article 50. There is no parliamentary approval of that process, it is for the Gov't to invoke in a speech or letter. Once invoked, the two-year process begins. Any agreement with the EU will need to be approved by parliament, but the Gov't is the executive and decides what to propose, not parliament. If a proposal is not approved within two years, we've left, regardless. So, barring a massive climbdown from the EU in which they offer something like EEA without freedom of movement (not going to happen), there is no scenario in which Article 50 is not invoked and, once invoked, no scenario in which we will remain. After we've left, try arguing for renewed membership on the basis of the Euro and Schengen Area Pretty soon, this is all going to sink in. The next ~2 years is about deciding the nature of our relationship outside the EU, not whether we're going. Let's be honest, they don't really want us at this point, anyway. We've fecked them around for far too long (seriously, I'd be peed off with us too).

And this is my thoughts about the Scottish. Sick to death of them. But if they want to go, let them. I have no idea why the EU would want us to stay or why we would want the Scots to stay if they don't want to.

Us leaving makes sense all round. They want more of a socialist superstate. We (England and Wales) don't. Scotland does. So if we left the EU and Scotland left us and joined the EU then we would all be happy.

The trouble is there are so many egos and architects of the 'project' who are seeing their empire crumble in front of them.

[stek]

It's hard to lose.

But, it's worth taking a step back and thinking about how this is going to work at the most elementary level. There will be a new Tory PM. They will invoke Article 50. There is no parliamentary approval of that process, it is for the Gov't to invoke in a speech or letter. Once invoked, the two-year process begins. Any agreement with the EU will need to be approved by parliament, but the Gov't is the executive and decides what to propose, not parliament. If a proposal is not approved within two years, we've left, regardless. So, barring a massive climbdown from the EU in which they offer something like EEA without freedom of movement (not going to happen), there is no scenario in which Article 50 is not invoked and, once invoked, no scenario in which we will remain. After we've left, try arguing for renewed membership on the basis of the Euro and Schengen Area Pretty soon, this is all going to sink in. The next ~2 years is about deciding the nature of our relationship outside the EU, not whether we're going. Let's be honest, they don't really want us at this point, anyway. We've fecked them around for far too long (seriously, I'd be peed off with us too).

I'm reading that there is a possibly of a referendum of whether we should invoke Art. 50. There are alternatives too, i.e. Art. 48 for example.

[Old Greg]

It's hard to lose.

But, it's worth taking a step back and thinking about how this is going to work at the most elementary level. There will be a new Tory PM. They will invoke Article 50. There is no parliamentary approval of that process, it is for the Gov't to invoke in a speech or letter. Once invoked, the two-year process begins. Any agreement with the EU will need to be approved by parliament, but the Gov't is the executive and decides what to propose, not parliament. If a proposal is not approved within two years, we've left, regardless. So, barring a massive climbdown from the EU in which they offer something like EEA without freedom of movement (not going to happen), there is no scenario in which Article 50 is not invoked and, once invoked, no scenario in which we will remain. After we've left, try arguing for renewed membership on the basis of the Euro and Schengen Area Pretty soon, this is all going to sink in. The next ~2 years is about deciding the nature of our relationship outside the EU, not whether we're going. Let's be honest, they don't really want us at this point, anyway. We've fecked them around for far too long (seriously, I'd be peed off with us too).

There is no parliamentary approval of the process required now. Of course Parliament could pass an act requiring such approval.

But it is all rather silly. There needs to be an election for a new parliament through which can be formed a government that has a mandate to negotiate with the EU.

[jamesbrown]

I'm reading that there is a possibly of a referendum of whether we should invoke Art. 50. There are alternatives too, i.e. Art. 48 for example.

I don't know where you read this, but it's completely baseless.

The process (of notifying the EU) is controlled by Gov't, not parliament. What you're suggesting is that a scenario could arise whereby a new Tory PM chooses not to formally notify the European Council of our intention to leave.

I can't believe I'm even bothering to write this. You can choose not to take me at my word, but I would've said the same, had we lost.

Anyone seriously considering the circumstances in which we ignore the vote, however clever that mechanism might appear to be, doesn't realise what they're playing with. Funny stuff.

Bring on Stage 3!

[jamesbrown]

There is no parliamentary approval of the process required now. Of course Parliament could pass an act requiring such approval.

But it is all rather silly. There needs to be an election for a new parliament through which can be formed a government that has a mandate to negotiate with the EU.

Who proposes legislation?

A Private Members Bill?