HMRC have decided I'm inside IR35

[malvolio]

They backed that as a test case IIRC. Clearly they aren't going to pay to take every case to the House of Lords.

You think...? I wouldn't be so sure.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

@OP - sorry to hear this, it must be a worry.

IME this is an opening gambit by HMRC, they have little to loose other than taxpayer funded time if they get it wrong.

My experience, of case stats within my firm, is that under 50% of IR35 fails by HMRC remain so after appeal process is exhausted.

In other words you have a lot to play for still.

It is, however, a great shame, that businesses are put under this level of stress to prove innocence. I feel for you.

[mudskipper]

Nothing to add except sympathies. Keep us posted.

[VectraMan]

You think...? I wouldn't be so sure.

I'm happy to be proved wrong.

[Martley]

Thanks for all of your replies so far. I am being absolutely straightforward about the situation I find myself in. I would not come on here and say I was being investigated just to prove another person's previous post was incorrect. The thought would not even cross my mind. If I could scan my five page diatribe from the HMRC onto this page I would. But I obviously can't. One of the reason why I haven't always been so up with the ins and outs of IR35 is because I have an accountant and insurance and my contracts were always thought to be outside. I genuinely appreciate people's empathy and good wishes and I will use the advice to go forward.

Yes there are hundreds of thousands of contractors not under investigation, but believe me people in my field of social care in the public sector are worried. There has been a very big increase in investigations over the past two years. This is genuinely driving people out of protecting the vulnerable in very difficult areas. As I said on my original thread in 2013 we are filling a gap in a very under resourced workforce which lacks the experience to get things done quickly and efficiently. People like me on short term contracts going in and clearing things up are cost effective in so many ways. We are not replacing people because they can't get the people in the first place. We have no expectations of being there for years. I was on a team of five workers who was bought in on a short term basis to clear a backlog. We were kept separate from permanent workers and had zero perks. Now the HMRC are trying to say I was integrated into the organisation. It's just madness.

[pacontracting]

It would be interested to hear your circumstances...

A HMRC investigation is likely to go on for a while (weeks if not months) while the documents go back and forth...

Sounds like you are a care assistant? Do you have your own Ltd? Go into contracts via an agency?

As a previous poster has said:

1/ Do you have the right of substitution? - can you send someone else?
2/ What level of control do you have? Total? Do you have a manager to tell you what, when, how? Set hours etc?
3/ Are you able to not turn up and not get paid? Can client tell you that you are not required for a week? Do you have to book holiday? What if you wanted to take a month off?

Just curious as very few IR35 investigation actually come into the community eye...

[centurian]

Given that a large chunk of those on here are in the IT/technical sphere, it's interesting to hear from contractors in completely different industries being affected by IR35

People like me on short term contracts going in and clearing things up are cost effective in so many ways. We are not replacing people because they can't get the people in the first place. We have no expectations of being there for years. I was on a team of five workers who was bought in on a short term basis to clear a backlog. We were kept separate from permanent workers and had zero perks.

Little of which makes a jot in terms of how IR35 is framed. HMRC (and the courts) don't care if people are leaving as a result - in fact it's the cherry on the cake to them, so it will only provide a boost to them.

It all comes back to Personal Service, Direction & Control and Mutuality of Obligation. You must focus all your energies on breaking at least one of those.

Remember, this is a legal battle now. How you think the law should apply is irrelevant. All that matters is how the law is framed - and you need to switch your mind-set accordingly.

Hope it all works out.

[mudskipper]

Sounds like you are a care assistant?

Probably a social worker.

I remember our regular socialworker poster weighing up IR35 when she started - can't remember her conclusion!

Edit: http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-out-ir35.html

[Martley]

Given that a large chunk of those on here are in the IT/technical sphere, it's interesting to hear from contractors in completely different industries being affected by IR35



Little of which makes a jot in terms of how IR35 is framed. HMRC (and the courts) don't care if people are leaving as a result - in fact it's the cherry on the cake to them, so it will only provide a boost to them.

It all comes back to Personal Service, Direction & Control and Mutuality of Obligation. You must focus all your energies on breaking at least one of those.

Remember, this is a legal battle now. How you think the law should apply is irrelevant. All that matters is how the law is framed - and you need to switch your mind-set accordingly.

Hope it all works out.

Thanks much appreciated. As with all professionals there must be a degree of accountability to others, but I was able to set my own hours as long as the work got done. There w as absolutely no MOO present whatsoever.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Thanks much appreciated. As with all professionals there must be a degree of accountability to others, but I was able to set my own hours as long as the work got done. There w as absolutely no MOO present whatsoever.

Were your cases assigned to you and then you decided who you visited and when?