Final RTI submission questions (not the service company one)

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

We've had several threads on the service company question but I was just wondering about a couple of the other questions on the last submission too, if anybody has done this yet...I'm sure they were probably on the P35 before but I can't remember what I answered (and my circumstances are a little different this year).

Accountant has been emailed but thought I'd ask here too.

Have you paid any of an employee's pay to someone other than the employee, for example to a school?
Indicate 'Yes' if you paid any of an employee's pay to someone other than the employee, for example to a school, and you did not include this pay on a RTI submission. Otherwise indicate 'No'.

Does directly contracted childcare count? MyCo has a contract with the nursery my daughter attends and pays up to the monthly childcare voucher limit for both myself and my partner (who is company secretary). All straightforward, MyCo pays the nursery directly, basic earnings assessment was done at the time, no salary sacrifice etc. Do I need to answer Yes to this?

Completed forms P11D and P11D(b) are due.

I've always submitted P11Ds but this year I applied for and got a dispensation covering business travel, subsistence and telephone calls, applicable from the beginning of the current tax year. I have to do a final review of my expenses but assuming all of my expenses fall within the dispensation (I'm pretty sure they do), meaning I'd therefore have nothing to report on the P11D, do I select No for this and not submit any P11D/P11D(b) at all this year? That was my understanding but I wanted to make sure I'm not going to get a penalty for failing to submit a nil P11D.

Thanks!

[ContrataxLtd]

Hi TCP

To clarify your questions:

Does directly contracted childcare count? MyCo has a contract with the nursery my daughter attends and pays up to the monthly childcare voucher limit for both myself and my partner (who is company secretary). All straightforward, MyCo pays the nursery directly, basic earnings assessment was done at the time, no salary sacrifice etc. Do I need to answer Yes to this?

I don't believe this does count. The childcare agreement is a direct agreement between your company and the childcare provider and as such doesn't affect payroll & RTI. I would therefore answer NO to this question.

I've always submitted P11Ds but this year I applied for and got a dispensation covering business travel, subsistence and telephone calls, applicable from the beginning of the current tax year. I have to do a final review of my expenses but assuming all of my expenses fall within the dispensation (I'm pretty sure they do), meaning I'd therefore have nothing to report on the P11D, do I select No for this and not submit any P11D/P11D(b) at all this year? That was my understanding but I wanted to make sure I'm not going to get a penalty for failing to submit a nil P11D.

Thanks!

If everything is covered by your dispensation and you therefore have no P11d reporting requirements you can answer NO to this also. This should mean that HMRC do not expect a P11d and as such no penalties should arise for not submitting a nil P11d.

Hope this helps.

Martin
Contratax Ltd

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Thanks Martin. That aligns with my own thinking but as usual, HMRC are clear as mud on this!

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

My accountant got back to me and concurred with the above but didn't seem 100% certain on the question re: childcare. He pointed me to this AccountingWeb post:

Childcare vouchers and final month payroll Qs | AccountingWEB

So it seems like some other accountants aren't sure either!

I suppose I could ring up HMRC and ask them.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I did a bit more digging on this; because the questions are virtually the same as the ones that used to appear on the P35, this HMRC guidance, whilst a bit old, still seems relevant:

PAYE43020 - Employer returns: capture employer return - 2005 onwards: checklist and declaration on P35 - 2005 onwards

Question 5
This asks the employer whether they have paid any part of an employee’s pay direct to anyone else, for example, paying school fees direct to a school.

If they have, was the payment included in the employee’s pay for tax and NIC purposes and in the figure of pay shown on the employee’s form P14?

If this has occurred the employer must answer ‘Yes’ to this question.

So it seems to me, that you only answer YES if the payments were included in your pay. In the cases of directly contracted childcare, they clearly do not and I'm sure the same is true of actual childcare vouchers, so I'm happy to answer NO to this one.

[ContrataxLtd]

I did a bit more digging on this; because the questions are virtually the same as the ones that used to appear on the P35, this HMRC guidance, whilst a bit old, still seems relevant:

PAYE43020 - Employer returns: capture employer return - 2005 onwards: checklist and declaration on P35 - 2005 onwards



So it seems to me, that you only answer YES if the payments were included in your pay. In the cases of directly contracted childcare, they clearly do not and I'm sure the same is true of actual childcare vouchers, so I'm happy to answer NO to this one.

I'm of the same opinion as you on this one, the question in my opinion hasn't substantially changed from last year so it should be answered the same way. Likewise, I don't feel that childcare vouchers/directly contracted childcare payments are part of the employees 'pay' so the answer is no.

But as with most HMRC related guidance, it's not always clear and is open to interpretation but I feel most accountants will be answering this with a no on behalf of their clients. I'd be interested to hear others views on this though.

I've also got a webinar on Friday (4pm) regarding this exact thing, RTI year end procedures. It's a CIOT run webinar for members so I'm not sure if non members and students can watch it but PM me if you want the details. It is live and has a presence from HMRC and KMPG discussing the matters at hand. I've also specifically raised the question on how to answer the RTI declarations (including the service company question) so I'm expecting it to be very informative. If anything definitive comes from it I'll post it back for everyone's benefit.

Martin
Contratax Ltd

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Would be interesting to hear what you find out Martin. I think most of us are of the opinion that the service company question is only a YES if you're IR35 caught, but will be good to get some kind of confirmation of that, and the other questions too.

Thanks again.

[Maslins]

My accountant got back to me and concurred with the above but didn't seem 100% certain on the question re: childcare. He pointed me to this AccountingWeb post:

Childcare vouchers and final month payroll Qs | AccountingWEB

So it seems like some other accountants aren't sure either!

Heh, rumbled! Yes in typical HMRC fashion everything's as clear as mud. If in doubt, give the answer that's less likely to lead to headaches.