Working without a contract

[DirtyDog]

I don't see any indication whatsoever this is due to Johns mistakes. The fact it mentions him working all the hours gods sends would indicate it's just late due to timescales not issues of work quality.

A later post from the OP indicates this as well.

If it was due to mistakes then yes I would agree but I am sure this isn't the case.

I agree - which is why I said that I was assuming that "the delays can be put down to his mistakes, of course."

I still disagree that working extra hours and being paid for those hours helps your IR35 position, though.

[northernladuk]

Firstly, John has received 55k thus far so has been paid to end Nov. There is a real product although the software is incomplete. Due to the level of stress being so high now, its not a concern if any more is received and he wont chase it. He just wants to move on with as little collateral damage as possible and NEVER repeat these mistakes again!!!

I don't agree with all this at all. When he stops work the stress will end. Chasing his money isn't stressful, his solicitor does it on his behalf. He has worked it so he is legally entitled to every penny and there are a lot of people out there that would agree and can help him get it. If he cares so little about it tell a solicitor he can have half of whatever he recovers and leave him to it. No stress.

I do find this 'John says' scenario a bit creepy TBH

[northernladuk]

I agree - which is why I said that I was assuming that "the delays can be put down to his mistakes, of course."

I still disagree that working extra hours and being paid for those hours helps your IR35 position, though.

I was talking about him working for client C at the same time so he has multiple revenue streams. Yes it is on a per contract basis but works very well for the BET's

[DirtyDog]

I was talking about him working for client C at the same time so he has multiple revenue streams. Yes it is on a per contract basis but works very well for the BET's

I'd misread the original post and hadn't realized that the suggestion is that he works for C instead of A/B, and assumed he was talking about working extra hours under the current "contract" to complete the work in his own time.

[northernladuk]

I'd misread the original post and hadn't realized that the suggestion is that he works for C instead of A/B, and assumed he was talking about working extra hours under the current "contract" to complete the work in his own time.

I'll let you off

[DirtyDog]

Firstly, John has received 55k thus far so has been paid to end Nov. There is a real product although the software is incomplete. Due to the level of stress being so high now, its not a concern if any more is received and he wont chase it. He just wants to move on with as little collateral damage as possible and NEVER repeat these mistakes again!!!

Simple way to stop the stress is to leave, then, if you are prepared to write off the £20k.

The more I read about "John", the more I think "what a f***ing moron". Not only did "he" work without a contract, he then let the amount owed hit £20k, and is now willing just to let it go because he doesn't want to chase it.

Has "he" invoiced for the amounts, and if so, has "he" accounted for the invoices properly in hi accounts? Has he already paid VAT on the unpaid invoices?

[tarbera]

Best advice

I have a friend whose name is John who has, through his own limited company, been working for a company (company A) without a contract (company A is another 1 man band). The work for Company A is for a contract they have to deliver to Company B. This has now been going on for 10 months.

John has been working very hard (long days, often 7 days per week, for the last 10 months) and is shattered but is trying to deliver enough so that Company A can meet their contractual obligations, which is much overdue.

Company A has said to company B that if the work overruns the next deadline then any further work will be completed free-of-charge. John reluctantly agreed as he is close to completion and under pressure. John is owed in the region of 20k but is trying to draw this to a amicable conclusion for professionalism, however, has the opportunity for a contract back with another company (C).

While John realizes this situation has got out of control, he doesn't intend to leave Company A in trouble, he does have to think about his own future and has a very good reputation at company C where he wants to work. His plan would therefore be; if the work overruns to finish it off outside of the work for Company C which is not ideal but what he feels is right. Otherwise he stands to loose a good contract and keep chasing a cluster-fk of a project.

For the payments that he has received, John has invoiced for design work by the hour to Company A.

So with that can of worms open....

Could John and his company be held liable for breech of contract between Company A and Company B?

Down tools right now and say you will resume when later today or tomorrow when the £20K hits tour bank account when finished you have no leverage. you will be back on here asking how you can get your 20K back,

[DirtyDog]

Down tools right now and say you will resume when later today or tomorrow when the £20K hits tour bank account when finished you have no leverage. you will be back on here asking how you can get your 20K back,

No he won't - John is going to write it off:

Firstly, John has received 55k thus far so has been paid to end Nov. There is a real product although the software is incomplete. Due to the level of stress being so high now, its not a concern if any more is received and he wont chase it. He just wants to move on with as little collateral damage as possible and NEVER repeat these mistakes again!!!

John is either (a) very cash rich; or (b) a buffoon to decide now that getting £20k isn't worth asking for.

[DaveHills]

John should really thank us, the advice is for him

Oh right yeah

Simple way to stop the stress is to leave, then, if you are prepared to write off the £20k.

The more I read about "John", the more I think "what a f***ing moron". Not only did "he" work without a contract, he then let the amount owed hit £20k, and is now willing just to let it go because he doesn't want to chase it.

Has "he" invoiced for the amounts, and if so, has "he" accounted for the invoices properly in hi accounts? Has he already paid VAT on the unpaid invoices?

What you say is fair (moron) but Company A has been friends for a number of years which has complicated the situation.

Next quarter for the VAT due and worst case ~1.5k. Its not that the outstanding amounts aren't of concern or that they wont be chased, its that if it comes to a bun fight, it might be better to simply move on, obviously having learned a few lessons the hard-way rather than to stir a hornets nest!

[tarbera]

are Company A and B lovers ??

Oh right yeah



What you say is fair (moron) but Company A has been friends for a number of years which has complicated the situation.

Next quarter for the VAT due and worst case ~1.5k. Its not that the outstanding amounts aren't of concern or that they wont be chased, its that if it comes to a bun fight, it might be better to simply move on, obviously having learned a few lessons the hard-way rather than to stir a hornets nest!

if so that would explain a lot.?