Working on long (12 month) contract directly for a friends company

[Old Greg]

Generally good advice but you cannot ignore the factors the OP has mentioned and they blow all of this out of the water. It is clearly a perm job with a fudged payment process. No amount of playing the game is going to cover this one IMO. He is going to act like an employee and be treated as one so his working practices will fail and he it is going to be extremely difficult to pretend to be B2B in a friends company.

Then he needs to think like a business and enter into a business relationship. He probably has the opprotunity to negotiate his own contract and terms and in some respects that puts him in a much better position than people who go via an agency. Being inside IR35 costs a lot. That's why it's worth some investigation and effort.

What's the latest tally on PCG IR35 cases win and lost?

[northernladuk]

Then he needs to think like a business and enter into a business relationship. He probably has the opprotunity to negotiate his own contract and terms and in some respects that puts him in a much better position than people who go via an agency. Being inside IR35 costs a lot. That's why it's worth some investigation and effort.

What's the latest tally on PCG IR35 cases win and lost?

Good points well made.

[Old Greg]

Good points well made.

The latest tally I see is 1462 wins and 6 losses. I reckon you need to be one of the worst cases to lose if properly represented. Or am I missing something?

[northernladuk]

The latest tally I see is 1462 wins and 6 losses. I reckon you need to be one of the worst cases to lose if properly represented. Or am I missing something?

Nope as I said good point... but in the OP's current situation he is guaranteed to be one of the 6. You cannot deny that.

Still don't think that means we should give him the advice to do what he wants as it doesn't matter but the statistics don't look very scary. Just out of interest did we ever get a number of how many were settled in HMRCs favour before it hitting court or is that included in the above?

[Old Greg]

Nope as I said good point... but in the OP's current situation he is guaranteed to be one of the 6. You cannot deny that.

Still don't think that means we should give him the advice to do what he wants as it doesn't matter but the statistics don't look very scary. Just out of interest did we ever get a number of how many were settled in HMRCs favour before it hitting court or is that included in the above?

Nah.

The 6 will be people who have been with the same client for 10 years or Friday to Monday contractors or something equally egregious. This guy just has a client who wants an employee.

[SueEllen]

Nah.

The 6 will be people who have been with the same client for 10 years or Friday to Monday contractors or something equally egregious. This guy just has a client who wants an employee.

The 6 people likely represented themselves entirely or for a long time initially before they realised they needed professional help.

[Old Greg]

The 6 people likely represented themselves entirely or for a long time initially before they realised they needed professional help.

Interesting.

We almost all operate somewhere within a grey area. The OP has the opportunity to modify where he sits within that grey area.

[TheFaQQer]

Interesting.

We almost all operate somewhere within a grey area. The OP has the opportunity to modify where he sits within that grey area.

I don't see anything grey in the OPs area, though:

I have been offered a role at a friends company, they would like me to consider taking a role on a 12 month contract basis despite them considering the role permanent- the reason for this so they can capex the cost of the wages so it doesn't effect their budgets - they are willing to increase the wage offered to compensate for this.

The "client" sees this as a permanent role, so if there was an investigation, there can't be a reasonable defence. Knowing this going into the contract means that you are then looking at more penalties because it's going to be classed as evasion.

So, the OP has two choices. Knowing that they are IR35 caught, either pay up from the start and be safe, or pay nothing and risk a lot. Of the two, I know which one I'd be taking.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

WTFS I can't see that there is anyway the OP would be outside IR35

[Old Greg]

I don't see anything grey in the OPs area, though:



The "client" sees this as a permanent role, so if there was an investigation, there can't be a reasonable defence. Knowing this going into the contract means that you are then looking at more penalties because it's going to be classed as evasion.

So, the OP has two choices. Knowing that they are IR35 caught, either pay up from the start and be safe, or pay nothing and risk a lot. Of the two, I know which one I'd be taking.

So you negotiate with them until they don't see it as a permanent role. And then look at the PCG stats.