Is going limited worth it if you are inside IR35?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

So the conversation will be something along the lines of "According to my working practices and in the light of both case law and this review from a respected professional I'm outside. Now what?". Or are HMRC going to take everyone who says they are outside to court regardless?

I think they are likely to say 'prove it'

[malvolio]

I think they are likely to say 'prove it'

It won't ask "Are you caught by IR35", it will ask "How much salary and dividends did you take if you are a PSC?". That proves nothing, especially if you're leaving money in the company, a pension fund or anywhere else other than your own bank account. So they still have to open an enquiry and the same old treadmill still applies; except that HMRC are under pressure to close inquiries that are clearly going nowhere.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

It won't ask "Are you caught by IR35", it will ask "How much salary and dividends did you take if you are a PSC?". That proves nothing, especially if you're leaving money in the company, a pension fund or anywhere else other than your own bank account. So they still have to open an enquiry and the same old treadmill still applies; except that HMRC are under pressure to close inquiries that are clearly going nowhere.

Do you actually know the wording for a fact?

[malvolio]

Do you actually know the wording for a fact?

I'm quoting Qdos's site...

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'm quoting Qdos's site...

OK so we don't know what the exact wording is going to be just yet?

[LandRover]

OK so we don't know what the exact wording is going to be just yet?

I think that's the problem, uncertainty again coming in 2013 Finance Bill. People thinking its carry on as usual could be in for a surprise imo. The ramp up of staff, the fact dedicated staff can process up to 1000 cases etc etc sends out a message in itself. Its the presumption of your caught now prove it...which if anyone thinking is not stressful, is operating in denial. Easy pickings is how HMRC are looking at freelancers and conractors...aimho.

[malvolio]

I think that's the problem, uncertainty again coming in 2013 Finance Bill. People thinking its carry on as usual could be in for a surprise imo. The ramp up of staff, the fact dedicated staff can process up to 1000 cases etc etc sends out a message in itself. Its the presumption of your caught now prove it...which if anyone thinking is not stressful, is operating in denial. Easy pickings is how HMRC are looking at freelancers and conractors...aimho.

But they can start as many as they like. If you are following good practice, have a sensible contract that matches reality, have a qualified review of the contract and quality PEI insurance cover, then HMRC still have to prove that you are liable to pay under IR35 rules, and you will take them to a least the tribunal to defend your position. And they will still come away with the same results ratio.

The law hasn't changed, nor has the process. "More" does not imply "Better".

[contr7758301]

Employment Status Indicator

I was reading this thread with interest and then looked at the Employment Status Indicator test of Hector (HM Revenue & Customs:Employment Status Indicator )to see what is going to be their thinking.

The key two definitions (I took the test about 10-15 times and based on the ones that came up with self-employed as the result) which mark someone as self-employed is a) you need not be working regular hours but are expected to deliver to deadlines 2) ability to substitute

Actually substitution is one that immediately allows you as self employed. If you can't substitute then the working pattern (control). All experienced forum posters might already know this and apologies I am repeating what everyone knows. But, almost all contractors who I have been working with will be marked as employees. I work one engager a year (on an average) and then move on to another next year. Even that is not good according to that test.

Considering the tool has been updated mid 2010, if they ramp up the IR35 squad, it is going to be another mayhem...

[LandRover]

I was reading this thread with interest and then looked at the Employment Status Indicator test of Hector (HM Revenue & Customs:Employment Status Indicator )to see what is going to be their thinking.

The key two definitions (I took the test about 10-15 times and based on the ones that came up with self-employed as the result) which mark someone as self-employed is a) you need not be working regular hours but are expected to deliver to deadlines 2) ability to substitute

Actually substitution is one that immediately allows you as self employed. If you can't substitute then the working pattern (control). All experienced forum posters might already know this and apologies I am repeating what everyone knows. But, almost all contractors who I have been working with will be marked as employees. I work one engager a year (on an average) and then move on to another next year. Even that is not good according to that test.

Considering the tool has been updated mid 2010, if they ramp up the IR35 squad, it is going to be another mayhem...

My thoughts too.


And you only have to read stuff like this to be very very fearful if Labour win 2015 election.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...policy-review/

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/UniteLabour.pdf