First job, first contract, a bit confused...

[northernladuk]

Do NOT turn up on client site until you have all this sorted out. An un-signed contract for a non-existing LTD with another contract coming that you haven't seen yet but you are on client site is going to end in tears.

Do not turn up until you understand and have signed your contract. If you turn up and start work you are accepting the last contract you saw and have absolutely no base to negotiate anything so could get seriously screwed over and end up getting walked with no pay.

[Andy Hallett]

An umbrella company can have you signed up within minutes and ready to go. If your agency doesn't have a prefered partner(list) PM me and I can recommend.

Can't see how you can sign a Ltd Company contract on behalf of a company that does not exist!

[Taurig]

He's talking crap. If you want to remain opted in, then remain opted in. If you want to opt out, then opt out. Be prepared to argue this with the agent, though.

Opting in has absolutely nothing to do with PAYE - I've never opted out and have always been on a daily rate.

From what you describe, though, you may be best off going through PAYE anyway. Since you have no intention to continue as a freelancer, then the expenses which you could claim are limited as this "contract" becomes your permanent place of work until you leave.

If you are really concerned about opting out, then go umbrella - the agency would need to have the umbrella and you opt out separately, which isn't going to happen before you start work for the client on Monday.

I'm glad you say he is talking crap. His exact words to me were 'If you opt in, you cannot work with [CLIENT]'. He said I was free to talk to their legal team who would confirm that.

My main concern is that in the opt out contract they have given me, for 12 months after this one year contract daily rate contract expires, I cannot enter, or approach with the intent of entering, a contract with the client, someone in the clients group, or someone who I meet as a result of working for the client (during the last six months of the contract). I believe that with opting in, this situation would only last for 8 weeks after the end of the contract. If the current client offers me a permanent position, or I find work with another client, I do no want to have to involve the agency.

[Taurig]

Do NOT turn up on client site until you have all this sorted out. An un-signed contract for a non-existing LTD with another contract coming that you haven't seen yet but you are on client site is going to end in tears.

Do not turn up until you understand and have signed your contract. If you turn up and start work you are accepting the last contract you saw and have absolutely no base to negotiate anything so could get seriously screwed over and end up getting walked with no pay.

I'm glad you've said that, I was just going to turn up as I have no issues with the client themselves, but what you say makes total sense. I am even more annoyed now as the contract they sent was dated 6 days ago but I was only sent it this morning, and they want me to start Monday. What a shambles!

[northernladuk]

I'm glad you've said that, I was just going to turn up as I have no issues with the client themselves, but what you say makes total sense. I am even more annoyed now as the contract they sent was dated 6 days ago but I was only sent it this morning, and they want me to start Monday. What a shambles!

To be honest the last three gigs I got I interviewed Tues/Weds and was on site Monday, even with a QDOS contract check. It is the way we work in contracting. What is a shambles is the fact you are not geared up for this type of work so not sure why you have been applying for and also the type of contract you have gone for. I thing FTC's are horrible at best but putting one though as a contractor type contract is just wrong.

The fact this needs to be sorted in less than a week is not uncommon. Think how cheesed off you are going to be if they bin you with no notice and no pay which I suspect they can. Were you aware of that?

[psychocandy]

New contractor in 'Finds out agents don't tell the truth' shocker.....

[Taurig]

To be honest the last three gigs I got I interviewed Tues/Weds and was on site Monday, even with a QDOS contract check. It is the way we work in contracting. What is a shambles is the fact you are not geared up for this type of work so not sure why you have been applying for and also the type of contract you have gone for. I thing FTC's are horrible at best but putting one though as a contractor type contract is just wrong.

The fact this needs to be sorted in less than a week is not uncommon. Think how cheesed off you are going to be if they bin you with no notice and no pay which I suspect they can. Were you aware of that?

I'll admit that I have been naive about this, and my knowledge of contract work is next to nothing. But, in my defence I was kept very much in the dark about the specifics of the contract until this morning, two working days before I start my first job. I had the interview two weeks ago tomorrow, and would have started that Monday had everything been sorted out, I have no issues with starting work asap, it's just the contract I have issues with.

But, from where I am sitting now, they have sent me a contract for a Ltd company that I apparently own but doesn't exist, which I am supposed to sign to get me started on Monday, then sign another contract who knows how long after. Then I have been told by yourself not to turn up until I get it sorted, which is fair enough. And I have also apparently been lied to by the agency guy when he categorically stated that I cannot stay opted in and work as a daily rate contract. All in all, a stressful day. I'm thinking of sacking it and getting a bar job!

[SueEllen]

I'll admit that I have been naive about this, and my knowledge of contract work is next to nothing. But, in my defence I was kept very much in the dark about the specifics of the contract until this morning, two working days before I start my first job.

This is an agency trick like the rubbish the agent is sprouting.

They want you to turn up on site as once you have you cannot negotiate the contract.

Find yourself an umbrella asap.

Also agencies' legal teams in the majority of cases don't include someone who is a paralegal let alone a fully qualified and experienced solicitor. They tend to send a graduate on a legal training course and then use an agents forum to back up their knowledge.

[northernladuk]

I'll admit that I have been naive about this, and my knowledge of contract work is next to nothing. But, in my defence I was kept very much in the dark about the specifics of the contract until this morning, two working days before I start my first job. I had the interview two weeks ago tomorrow, and would have started that Monday had everything been sorted out, I have no issues with starting work asap, it's just the contract I have issues with.

But, from where I am sitting now, they have sent me a contract for a Ltd company that I apparently own but doesn't exist, which I am supposed to sign to get me started on Monday, then sign another contract who knows how long after. Then I have been told by yourself not to turn up until I get it sorted, which is fair enough. And I have also apparently been lied to by the agency guy when he categorically stated that I cannot stay opted in and work as a daily rate contract. All in all, a stressful day. I'm thinking of sacking it and getting a bar job!

Well I don't think he has lied. Cojak posted a link stating it is not illegal for an agency to dictate that they will only deal with Opted Out contractors. It is a business choice and they don't want to deal with the extra responsibilities that come with an opted in contract. I copied the link in to the last few pages of the Opt In/Out sticking although Wanderer has questioned it and I think SueEllen got a different answer. Either way, from my experience, agencies will resist Opt in to the point of you nearly losing the gig which just isn't worth it so sign the Opt Out and get on with it.

At the end of the day you are going to become permanent so it's all pretty irrelevant.

[Taurig]

Well I don't think he has lied. Cojak posted a link stating it is not illegal for an agency to dictate that they will only deal with Opted Out contractors. It is a business choice and they don't want to deal with the extra responsibilities that come with an opted in contract. I copied the link in to the last few pages of the Opt In/Out sticking although Wanderer has questioned it and I think SueEllen got a different answer. Either way, from my experience, agencies will resist Opt in to the point of you nearly losing the gig which just isn't worth it so sign the Opt Out and get on with it.

At the end of the day you are going to become permanent so it's all pretty irrelevant.

Lying by omission perhaps, but I take your point. What if I said I was willing to lose this job over it? Stupid maybe, but my gut says don't sign something that you're not happy with. Maybe my opinion will change after (hopefully) getting some legal advice tomorrow, but regardless I won't be signing this particular contract (as I'm not signing to say I have a Ltd company when I don't) and I won't turn up on Monday unless this is sorted for the reasons you and SueEllen have mentioned.

The thing is, if I get made permanent after a year at the current client or anyone associated with them, it appears I'm going to have to renegotiate with this agency unless I'm willing to wait for 12 months, and I do not want them to have that kind of control over me. That is the main reason I want to stay opted in as this time is reduced to a maximum of 8 weeks. Am I wrong in this?