IR35 - Back to my old Perm Job as a Contractor? Please help

[oracleslave]

Im still waiting for QDos to reply because i think i have a very relevant question!!

So they're on a time based SLA to provide you free advice on this free forum then?

[moggy]

So they're on a time based SLA to provide you free advice on this free forum then?

well to be fair that’s why they are on this forum, imo - to offer advice be seen to be knowledgeable and then get business.

[malvolio]

Ladies please, let's have some focus.

Basic QDOS (not TLC35) and a few other similar offerings insure you against the cost of an IR35 investigation, which can be significant. That's all they do. TLC35, Survive35 and some others then go on to insure you against the costs of losing a case; clearly that required that someone has to make a risk assessment, since the sums involved compared to the cost of the insurance premium are significant.

As QDOS reported recently, they haven't paid out on an TLC35 policy because they haven't yet lost a case where it would apply. Nor has Abbey with Survive35, as far as I know. Does that mean you don't need it? Personally I'd say yes, but it's your money and your risk assessment, not mine.

PCG membership is different. All members get representation for an IR35 case from the word go (they don't insure you, they insure themselves). PCG Plus members get it for any tax related inquiry, PAYE, IR35, VAT, whatever. If you want TLC35-like cover, you get a discount on Survive35 or, of course, you buy TLC35. (And, of course, you get a lot more hidden and real benefits from PCG membership, but that's out of the scope of this thread).

But as has been said, (a) you cannot possibly work as a contractor without understanding the basics of IR35 and (b) it is incumbent on you to assure yourself of your position wrt IR35, either by learning how it works or getting a professional opinion, or risk penalties on top of back tax if you get caught out.

[Old Greg]

Ladies please, let's have some focus.

Basic QDOS (not TLC35) and a few other similar offerings insure you against the cost of an IR35 investigation, which can be significant. That's all they do. TLC35, Survive35 and some others then go on to insure you against the costs of losing a case; clearly that required that someone has to make a risk assessment, since the sums involved compared to the cost of the insurance premium are significant.

As QDOS reported recently, they haven't paid out on an TLC35 policy because they haven't yet lost a case where it would apply. Nor has Abbey with Survive35, as far as I know. Does that mean you don't need it? Personally I'd say yes, but it's your money and your risk assessment, not mine.

PCG membership is different. All members get representation for an IR35 case from the word go (they don't insure you, they insure themselves). PCG Plus members get it for any tax related inquiry, PAYE, IR35, VAT, whatever. If you want TLC35-like cover, you get a discount on Survive35 or, of course, you buy TLC35. (And, of course, you get a lot more hidden and real benefits from PCG membership, but that's out of the scope of this thread).

But as has been said, (a) you cannot possibly work as a contractor without understanding the basics of IR35 and (b) it is incumbent on you to assure yourself of your position wrt IR35, either by learning how it works or getting a professional opinion, or risk penalties on top of back tax if you get caught out.

What's the current PCG win rate, Mal?

[malvolio]

What's the current PCG win rate, Mal?

Not totally sure, but roughly 1450:6, not forgetting 4 of the 6 were early cases where nobody really had their act fully together. Across the main players (B&C, QDOS and Accountax/PCG) the overall hit rate seems still to be pretty close to 100%. Appealed cases are different , of course, they are running at around 60:40 in favour of HMRC.

That said, our chums in the public sector seem to be doing their usual knee jerk and look like they are going to start insisting that all their contractors declare themselves IR35 caught in their contracts. That's total bollocks, of course, but PCG are trying to find out what the hell is going on. Anyone in the PS that gets into that discussion should let PCG know by email at publicsectorreview@pcg.org.uk - the more cases the better the ammo.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

To the OP - these are the business tests that HMR&C believe will determine your status http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ir35/guidance.pdf. Lots of people disagree with them, they have caused controversy and debate but, at the end of the day, these are the people you (or rather your insurance company) will be fighting. Re-writing a contract to try and fit the bill won't work.

[ANONYMOUS786]

Thanks. I still have my contract waiting to be signed, however i am not looking for anybody to make that decision for me here. What im looking for is an answer to a simple question....

If i get insured by TLC35 or PCQ equivalent, and sign my contract and then start work, would i be covered tomorrow in an IR35 investigation? I know its a broad question, and many of you have said i would need to take relevant steps to ensure my status, BUT, the insurance's seem to state that they cover.
But at the same time i know a lot of contractors insured and maybe they havent 'obsessively' taken the steps to ensure their status is outside IR35...

To the OP - these are the business tests that HMR&C believe will determine your status http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ir35/guidance.pdf. Lots of people disagree with them, they have caused controversy and debate but, at the end of the day, these are the people you (or rather your insurance company) will be fighting. Re-writing a contract to try and fit the bill won't work.

[Old Greg]

Not totally sure, but roughly 1450:6, not forgetting 4 of the 6 were early cases where nobody really had their act fully together. Across the main players (B&C, QDOS and Accountax/PCG) the overall hit rate seems still to be pretty close to 100%. Appealed cases are different , of course, they are running at around 60:40 in favour of HMRC.

That said, our chums in the public sector seem to be doing their usual knee jerk and look like they are going to start insisting that all their contractors declare themselves IR35 caught in their contracts. That's total bollocks, of course, but PCG are trying to find out what the hell is going on. Anyone in the PS that gets into that discussion should let PCG know by email at publicsectorreview@pcg.org.uk - the more cases the better the ammo.

It shows how hard it is to prove someone is inside IR35 if they have proper defence.

As far as PS, I have just started a contract with an arms length body receiving grant in aid funding. It was a struggle for them to find a way to take me on, but no talk of IR35.

[northernladuk]

Thanks. I still have my contract waiting to be signed, however i am not looking for anybody to make that decision for me here. What im looking for is an answer to a simple question....

If i get insured by TLC35 or PCQ equivalent, and sign my contract and then start work, would i be covered tomorrow in an IR35 investigation? I know its a broad question, and many of you have said i would need to take relevant steps to ensure my status, BUT, the insurance's seem to state that they cover.
But at the same time i know a lot of contractors insured and maybe they havent 'obsessively' taken the steps to ensure their status is outside IR35...

Why don't you ask the people providing it?

[malvolio]

Why don't you ask the people providing it?

Who - PCQ??? didnt realise the Presbyterian Church of Queensland sold insuirance on the side...

Yes, PCG cover starts as soon as you pay the membeship fee. However, here's a thought - you want to be a contractor, learn how to do your own research.