Training course and IR35

[kingcook]

He didn't

He sensibly came here and asked for advice. I would consider that as due diligence which passes yet another test.

HMRC: So what due diligence did you take to determine that your client was not directing or controlling you?
OP: I ask a bunch of random strangers on some public forum
HMRC: Case closed!

[northernladuk]

HMRC: So what due diligence did you take to determine that your client was not directing or controlling you?
OP: I ask a bunch of random strangers on some public forum
HMRC: Case closed!

Again a dose of +1 to kingcook. The comment about the half full and half cup is a very valid one indeed but rememeber HMRC's cup will be nearly empty! You are not having to justify it to yourself, you have to justify it to someone who wants to rip you to shreds and has the money to do so. Am sorry but asking a question on a forum proving you are unable to make a simple business decision is NOT due diligence.

There maybe much more to this we haven't seen but from the evidence in this post it looks pretty black and white to me.

[ItContractor123]

Thanks for all the advice and as is usual in these cases it’s never black and white. Nothing further has been said on it today and it was only mentioned by the client in passing. I don't know any more details with regards to funding etc. at the moment.

I won’t just do as the client says hence posting on here for advice. I haven’t been directed to do it and I can obviously just say it isn't something my business can or will offer. However I believe it will benefit my business so to provide a bit more info:

The project I have been contracted to deliver is a short term project (3mth contract) and as is normally the case the scope of it has changed.
With regards to the front end development 2 options exist
1. Use an external consultancy to provide the end to end solution

2. Produce the solution in house using the discussed front end development tools

Now from the clients perspective 1 is more expensive and is the least preferred at the moment as the project is also an interim solution. With regards to 2 then the general consensus before I started on the project was to get a different internal team to develop large parts of the front end. The problem is that they don’t really have the required resource to meet the tight time constraints. A possibility for point 2 is to try and get other contractors in who do have the necessary skill set but again it needs to be Live in < 3mths so this might also be tight.

Now as a business I want to maximise the value to shareholders so if my company can offer a greater level of expertise in a wider area then surely it is beneficial to the company.
If the company can offer end to end solutions rather than backend development it increases the likelihood of increased revenues in the future.

With regards to the current project if my business could help with point 2 it means the projects chances of success will be much greater. Now a happy client means a greater chance of repeat business so again its a sensible business decision.

With regards to who pays for the course etc. then to maximise the value to shareholders if the client is willing to pay isn't this something that is again a sensible business decision.

As the scope has changed could the cost of the course regarded as payment for contract alteration/extra services. Again the business could pay and then invoice the client direct.

With regards to due diligence surely asking a large variety of your peers/competitors would count towards due diligence.
If I want to research and do due diligence on a holiday I would via the internet, on forums and trip advisor etc so If I want to research a potential business decision I would see what other similar businesses have done in similar circumstances.

What other areas is it worth pursuing in terms of due diligence. I could ask accountant/solicitors etc. but again I just imagine this will be expensive and everyone will have a different opinion.

T

[tractor]

HMRC: So what due diligence did you take to determine that your client was not directing or controlling you?
OP: I ask a bunch of random strangers on some public forum
HMRC: Case closed!

Clearly the use of italics to denote irony was wasted

Thanks to the OP for clarifying it.

I believe it is as much the responsibility of the revenue to prove direction and control or due diligence as it is for the contractor otherwise IR35 cases would never end up at the tribunal/courts.

The OP is clear in that he is not being directed to do this. Indeed the fact that the Client has offered this as a option which the OP is FREE to walk away from if he so chooses clearly demonstrates the opposite of D & C.

Furthermore the only reference to D & C that I can find on the HMRC guidance is that d & C is assumed where the client can move you where they wish to cater for changing priorities. The lack of any clarification or examples in the new IR35 test scenarios shows I think that they know how difficult it is to prove D & C (or they are being deliberately obtuse so as not to advertise how to circumvent that part of the legislation).

I have spent some time searching and can find no evidence of D & C being instrumental in a case loss except for the part & parcel aspect which is another whole can of worms but very much less ambiguous i.e in some circumstances it is quite easy to determine status from the part and parcel test.

Next steps for the OP? I would ask for a contract change to cover this aspect of delivery without including the training aspect, have the draft contract reviewed (there is the due diligence I was alluding to , The contract review will cost just over £100 quite cheap for additional free training and belt and braces comfort, I think.

If the review comes back positive then go for it. the other points about revenue and profit that the OP makes are equally valid and form part of any potential defence.