Roger Sinclair (Egos) on New HMRC IR35 guidance

[GeekyGrandad]

I took my cue from Hex's quote (from Roger Sinclair's article) as a prelude to examining the OTS agenda behind the Small Business Review enquiry and report.
I regret conveying the impression that I expected no IR35 investigations at all, that was not the theme that I was on.

Although the OTS had a wider remit, it dwelt at some length on the complexities and affects of administering IR35. However, in mentioning the possibility of abolishing IR35 it implied a negative viewpoint as to its worthiness in future taxation arrangements. This is an interesting insight and suggests that the whole issue of tax policy for SME’s may undergo profound changes and have far reaching consequences for the administration of these entities and their legal format.

More will be revealed in time from the Working Party, but who is to say that the current point scoring rigmarole is merely a temporary arrangement.

You are correct on that Lisa. The is a lot of work being done with the OTS that will hopefully bear fruit. Unfortunately this has been delayed by the Lester et al affairs and the knee jerk reaction to it by the Emperor in Number 11. These fiascos played right into the hands of HMRC who were able to tell the Emperor that his clothes are indeed the finest. He will be exposed.

[BolshieBastard]

All very well people suggesting we rent office space from regis and the like. But how long before HMRC move the goalposts again and say you have to be physically in 'your' office a minimum 15 hours a week during the hours 9 to 5, monday to friday?

Or, reduce the points tally for this particular test to 5 or less?

If you have had any dealings with HMRC, you'll know they'll do whatever they want to, to bang you to rights. In this case IR35 caught.

[centurian]

Plus I think people still don't get what these business tests are all about. It allows the business owner to self assess themselves for their own piece of mind. Spending money on office space/advertising or otherwise re-interpreting the question is just fudging it for yourself.

If HMRC come knocking, they will only take a cursory look at your results - and will disregard anything remotely artificial - the rules around IR35 have not changed !!!

Maybe I'm in a big minority here, but I don't see a problem with these business tests - as long as you understand what they are for - it's a business self test, not an IR35 test.

Most of us here are going to be high/medium risk if they are honest with themselves - FFS that's half the point of this forum. Fudging the answers to "put" yourself into low risk doesn't actually lower your risk profile - it just gives you a false sense of security and probably makes you more complacent.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I took my cue from Hex's quote (from Roger Sinclair's article) as a prelude to examining the OTS agenda behind the Small Business Review enquiry and report.
I regret conveying the impression that I expected no IR35 investigations at all, that was not the theme that I was on.

Although the OTS had a wider remit, it dwelt at some length on the complexities and affects of administering IR35. However, in mentioning the possibility of abolishing IR35 it implied a negative viewpoint as to its worthiness in future taxation arrangements. This is an interesting insight and suggests that the whole issue of tax policy for SME’s may undergo profound changes and have far reaching consequences for the administration of these entities and their legal format.

More will be revealed in time from the Working Party, but who is to say that the current point scoring rigmarole is merely a temporary arrangement.

However 'worthy' IR35 may or may not be I think the chances of it being abolished and not replaced with something far more all encompassing are slim to none

[JamJarST]

Plus I think people still don't get what these business tests are all about. It allows the business owner to self assess themselves for their own piece of mind. Spending money on office space/advertising or otherwise re-interpreting the question is just fudging it for yourself.

If HMRC come knocking, they will only take a cursory look at your results - and will disregard anything remotely artificial - the rules around IR35 have not changed !!!

Maybe I'm in a big minority here, but I don't see a problem with these business tests - as long as you understand what they are for - it's a business self test, not an IR35 test.

Most of us here are going to be high/medium risk if they are honest with themselves - FFS that's half the point of this forum. Fudging the answers to "put" yourself into low risk doesn't actually lower your risk profile - it just gives you a false sense of security and probably makes you more complacent.

Yes you are right but I cant help think that HMRC have weighted them in such a way that people will assume they are inside IR35 even if they aren't.

[malvolio]

Yes you are right but I cant help think that HMRC have weighted them in such a way that people will assume they are inside IR35 even if they aren't.

They may have but that's not how to use them. If you can engineer a genuine Low Risk score, then give the evidence to HMRC and they will leave you alone for three years. If you can't - and most of us won't be able to - then say nothing and rely on the usual protections.

And you don't do anything anyway until HMRC tells you there is an investigation being opened.

[oracleslave]

We need a CUK office that we can rent micro desks from. Admin can be tea lady.

Given we are all directors (except those of us that are permie ) you might as well all join the Iod.

Membership benefits | IoD

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Plus I think people still don't get what these business tests are all about. It allows the business owner to self assess themselves for their own piece of mind. Spending money on office space/advertising or otherwise re-interpreting the question is just fudging it for yourself.

If HMRC come knocking, they will only take a cursory look at your results - and will disregard anything remotely artificial - the rules around IR35 have not changed !!!

Maybe I'm in a big minority here, but I don't see a problem with these business tests - as long as you understand what they are for - it's a business self test, not an IR35 test.

Most of us here are going to be high/medium risk if they are honest with themselves - FFS that's half the point of this forum. Fudging the answers to "put" yourself into low risk doesn't actually lower your risk profile - it just gives you a false sense of security and probably makes you more complacent.

Well put Centurian The fact that contractors have been burying their heads in the sand and operating outside IR35 even though they know different is the reason for all the loving care and attention this industry has had from our friends at HMRC.

[Hex]

Plus I think people still don't get what these business tests are all about. It allows the business owner to self assess themselves for their own piece of mind. Spending money on office space/advertising or otherwise re-interpreting the question is just fudging it for yourself.

If HMRC come knocking, they will only take a cursory look at your results - and will disregard anything remotely artificial - the rules around IR35 have not changed !!!

Maybe I'm in a big minority here, but I don't see a problem with these business tests - as long as you understand what they are for - it's a business self test, not an IR35 test.

Most of us here are going to be high/medium risk if they are honest with themselves - FFS that's half the point of this forum. Fudging the answers to "put" yourself into low risk doesn't actually lower your risk profile - it just gives you a false sense of security and probably makes you more complacent.

[BolshieBastard]

Plus I think people still don't get what these business tests are all about. It allows the business owner to self assess themselves for their own piece of mind. Spending money on office space/advertising or otherwise re-interpreting the question is just fudging it for yourself.

If HMRC come knocking, they will only take a cursory look at your results - and will disregard anything remotely artificial - the rules around IR35 have not changed !!!

Maybe I'm in a big minority here, but I don't see a problem with these business tests - as long as you understand what they are for - it's a business self test, not an IR35 test.

Most of us here are going to be high/medium risk if they are honest with themselves - FFS that's half the point of this forum. Fudging the answers to "put" yourself into low risk doesn't actually lower your risk profile - it just gives you a false sense of security and probably makes you more complacent.

Sorry but if you believe that pap about HMRC leaving you alone for 3 years, then, that's up to you.

Recent events have proved HMRC to be nothing less than lieing bastards where taxation is concerned.

I wouldnt trust them one jot.