No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[helen7]

The problem is that evidence that was used in the JR, and that the decision was based on was not true (call it lies, call it unknowing untruths the fact remains). There has also been a lot of evidence uncovered that shows the arrangement was known about and was accepted by HMRC/parliament. Couple that with the fact Hansard wasnt allowed as evidence and the story looks very different.

It might be unfair but, is it in the scope of the FTT to take this into account when making the decision?

Surely if the evidence used by HMRC in the JR was not true then there would have been an appeal process to follow at that time.

[ready_to_leave]

It might be unfair but, is it in the scope of the FTT to take this into account when making the decision?

Surely if the evidence used by HMRC in the JR was not true then there would have been an appeal process to follow at that time.

What is the surprise here? The state wants your money and they will do anything to get it. They are able to make legislation without restriction (a right they gave to themselves), lie, fabricate evidence, ignore facts and you are not able to do a damn thing about it. There is plenty more of this to come so you better get used to it. Property levies/pension levies/banking levies/one of wealth taxes of all kinds etc, etc in the name of fairness.

How many points have we had over the years that are driven from a sense of "but .. but .. it can't be right/legal/just".. yet here we find ourselves on the receiving end of the State's will and there is nothing we can do about it, irrespective of false evidence, collusion or idealogical dogma.

At some point perhaps the lies told to children about justice and the law will cease to confuse people when discussing this issue and we will have to accept the awful truth that there is no legal protection for the individual when faced with the bureaucracy of state. To quote George Carlin "it's a big club and you ain't in it".

[SantaClaus]

What is the surprise here? The state wants your money and they will do anything to get it. They are able to make legislation without restriction (a right they gave to themselves), lie, fabricate evidence, ignore facts and you are not able to do a damn thing about it. There is plenty more of this to come so you better get used to it. Property levies/pension levies/banking levies/one of wealth taxes of all kinds etc, etc in the name of fairness.

How many points have we had over the years that are driven from a sense of "but .. but .. it can't be right/legal/just".. yet here we find ourselves on the receiving end of the State's will and there is nothing we can do about it, irrespective of false evidence, collusion or idealogical dogma.

At some point perhaps the lies told to children about justice and the law will cease to confuse people when discussing this issue and we will have to accept the awful truth that there is no legal protection for the individual when faced with the bureaucracy of state. To quote George Carlin "it's a big club and you ain't in it".

You just got to look at the raid on Cypriot bank accounts to see that governments think they can do whatever they see fit.

[ready_to_leave]

You just got to look at the raid on Cypriot bank accounts to see that governments think they can do whatever they see fit.

Indeed . So turning up to Gauke's office with his previous words, Norman Lamont's transcript, and evidence that hMRC lied and used the opposite meaning of the original Padmore decision to get what they wanted is somehow going to make the civil service say:

"oh wait, you know what we have been wrong all along. I can't believe we lied about this, David has realised all those things he said in opposition are really true and we looked at Padmore again and it seems we were wrong. What a bunch of Silly Billies we have been. Let's just reverse this now entrenched decision and say no more about it."

Get a grip, Justice and the Law are a fantasy for children. Every state has always done what it wants right up to killing and torturing of its own citizens for often made up reasons. There is nothing, i repeat nothing that will change the Govt's position on this. They would send you and your family to the Gulag,without a moments hesitation if you were late on paying your tax if that is what the process required them to do. I suggest you look up Milgram's research on authority and the agentic effect.

It is a mistake that will drive you round the bend to try and evaluate these things with your own concept of justice.

[lucozade]

Indeed . So turning up to Gauke's office with his previous words, Norman Lamont's transcript, and evidence that hMRC lied and used the opposite meaning of the original Padmore decision to get what they wanted is somehow going to make the civil service say:

"oh wait, you know what we have been wrong all along. I can't believe we lied about this, David has realised all those things he said in opposition are really true and we looked at Padmore again and it seems we were wrong. What a bunch of Silly Billies we have been. Let's just reverse this now entrenched decision and say no more about it."

Get a grip, Justice and the Law are a fantasy for children. Every state has always done what it wants right up to killing and torturing of its own citizens for often made up reasons. There is nothing, i repeat nothing that will change the Govt's position on this. They would send you and your family to the Gulag,without a moments hesitation if you were late on paying your tax if that is what the process required them to do. I suggest you look up Milgram's research on authority and the agentic effect.

It is a mistake that will drive you round the bend to try and evaluate these things with your own concept of justice.

Oh well. What the devil are we wasting our time and money for?

Let's all roll over now.

[ready_to_leave]

Oh well. What the devil are we wasting our time and money for?

Let's all roll over now.

Its your time and money. I am just pointing out the facts as I see them given the grief curve most people seem to be going through as this drags along (denial, anger, bargaining, acceptance).

If you make a difference for yourself then fair play to you. But let us not be naive about justice, fairness and accountability which reappear as subjects on this thread at regular intervals given people's inability to come to terms with the Kafka-esque nature of it.

[Goinroamin]

Contact at Montpelier

Can someone PM me an email address for Montpelier please. I have mislayed all of my contact details

[OnYourBikeGB]

It's not looking great but …

… what's changed?

As far as I can see there's nothing really new, other than NormalBloke persuading Cameron to write to Gauke to meet with NTRT. He was never going to come down on our side, against his own minister's position, I was impressed that he's even writing the letter.

Let's not also forget that MontP have been preparing for the FTT as well. They've kept their strategy quiet. Let's hope it's a good one.

I hope the next newsletter is a bright one. I think we need one so we know where this is heading, from those in the thick of it. A bit of certainty, one way or the other, would be good.

[nevergiveup]

… what's changed?

As far as I can see there's nothing really new, other than NormalBloke persuading Cameron to write to Gauke to meet with NTRT. He was never going to come down on our side, against his own minister's position, I was impressed that he's even writing the letter.

Let's not also forget that MontP have been preparing for the FTT as well. They've kept their strategy quiet. Let's hope it's a good one.

I hope the next newsletter is a bright one. I think we need one so we know where this is heading, from those in the thick of it. A bit of certainty, one way or the other, would be good.

DR did say there should be some better news in the next NTRT newsletter IIRC so roll on Friday!!!

[smalldog]

… what's changed?

As far as I can see there's nothing really new, other than NormalBloke persuading Cameron to write to Gauke to meet with NTRT. He was never going to come down on our side, against his own minister's position, I was impressed that he's even writing the letter.

Let's not also forget that MontP have been preparing for the FTT as well. They've kept their strategy quiet. Let's hope it's a good one.

I hope the next newsletter is a bright one. I think we need one so we know where this is heading, from those in the thick of it. A bit of certainty, one way or the other, would be good.

Im not convinced any letter will be sent anywhere. Probably a corridor conversation between them and not probing into wrongs and rights, I can just imagine it: "Dave had one of those bloody S58 people at my surgery the other day, annoying little C***s. Get this thing concluded asap its dragging on too long now"