No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[mrkitchen]

Hi MrKitchen

Your MP should have a website with his surgery address.

MP's websites can be found here by postcode:

Search (Find Your MP) - UK Parliament

I have seen him at his surgery for the initial fobbing off, however Monday is not a surgery day and I doubt his minions will provide me with his whereabouts.

[Dieselpower]

Answer

Did anybody write to an MP who is actually on the Finance Committee? (apart from Mr Gauke). Also did someone write to Nigel Mills directly or is his involvement entirely down to Whitehouse?

Obviously any MP not on the Comm. has been feeding our letters into Gauke who, on rebutting, has been given a head start in dreaming up an argument to enforce the retrospection. Millsy naturally has a counter. But where do the rest lie I wonder? I get the impression that if Gauke is the most informed, tallest hog in the trough and the rest are on-the-fence, he might find it easy to bring the remainder around to his way of thinking. Is there some history on the other committee members that might present a challenge to The Gauke? Interested to know, ahead of ringing Whitehouse Monday.

GE to answer your questions: Whitehouse wrote to all members of the FBC and some replied and some had meetings with NTRT last month including Nigel Mills, Cathy Jamieson, Graeme Morrice and Fabian Hamilton (all supportive). To actually get 60 minute meetings with any MP is not a simple task, and Whitehouse have done very well. And then after these meetings Whitehouse have had to chase matters up, co-ordinate people, create fresh concise and updated briefing notes for Nigel Mills and Morrice and Hamilton etc etc. Basically almost a full time job in itself. Without them we would be LOST. Lost.

Gauke was aware of the incoming amendment torpedo on Monday after a member of NTRT met with his number 2 in Westminster, having also met an influential member of the Treasury Select Committee (who was NOT happy with HMRC whatsoever over this matter, I understand.

In any event, for Whitehouse and NTRT to have got an actual Tory to break ranks and demand a review (+ Impact Assessment) into S58 was as Smalldog has previously stated, complete genius. It should by now be obvious even to Le Gauke that a review is the very least that is needed, unless of course he naively feels that the court actions acted effectively as such a review.

Whitehouse and NTRT also of course managed, 3 weeks ago, to get a formal cross party letter sent to Le Gauke outlining the sad and ridiculous facts of s58, and ultimately requesting him to meet with NTRT asap.

[Basher]

Had my face-2-face today with my MP.

I would urge EVERYONE to do the same as its the only way we can get them to see the real impact of this rediculous law.

Like a lot of people I was not 100% confident of how I could make the most use of my 15 minutes but I am now so pleased I did it - Big thanks to NTRT, whitehouse and DR !

My MP was already very well informed and told me that he had seen around half a dozen other people affected by this so rather than go over everything I focussed on how it affects me and my family and the fact that basic principles had not been followed and Parliament had been misled.


Im now going to have a nice cold beer and try and chill out a bit.

[nevergiveup]

GE to answer your questions: Whitehouse wrote to all members of the FBC and some replied and some had meetings with NTRT last month including Nigel Mills, Cathy Jamieson, Graeme Morrice and Fabian Hamilton (all supportive). To actually get 60 minute meetings with any MP is not a simple task, and Whitehouse have done very well. And then after these meetings Whitehouse have had to chase matters up, co-ordinate people, create fresh concise and updated briefing notes for Nigel Mills and Morrice and Hamilton etc etc. Basically almost a full time job in itself. Without them we would be LOST. Lost.

Gauke was aware of the incoming amendment torpedo on Monday after a member of NTRT met with his number 2 in Westminster, having also met an influential member of the Treasury Select Committee (who was NOT happy with HMRC whatsoever over this matter, I understand.

In any event, for Whitehouse and NTRT to have got an actual Tory to break ranks and demand a review (+ Impact Assessment) into S58 was as Smalldog has previously stated, complete genius. It should by now be obvious even to Le Gauke that a review is the very least that is needed, unless of course he naively feels that the court actions acted effectively as such a review.

Whitehouse and NTRT also of course managed, 3 weeks ago, to get a formal cross party letter sent to Le Gauke outlining the sad and ridiculous facts of s58, and ultimately requesting him to meet with NTRT asap.

Thanks Dieselpower for this information. Made the weekend even better!

[the great escape]

GE to answer your questions: Whitehouse wrote to all members of the FBC and some replied and some had meetings with NTRT last month including Nigel Mills, Cathy Jamieson, Graeme Morrice and Fabian Hamilton (all supportive). To actually get 60 minute meetings with any MP is not a simple task, and Whitehouse have done very well. And then after these meetings Whitehouse have had to chase matters up, co-ordinate people, create fresh concise and updated briefing notes for Nigel Mills and Morrice and Hamilton etc etc. Basically almost a full time job in itself. Without them we would be LOST. Lost.

Gauke was aware of the incoming amendment torpedo on Monday after a member of NTRT met with his number 2 in Westminster, having also met an influential member of the Treasury Select Committee (who was NOT happy with HMRC whatsoever over this matter, I understand.

In any event, for Whitehouse and NTRT to have got an actual Tory to break ranks and demand a review (+ Impact Assessment) into S58 was as Smalldog has previously stated, complete genius. It should by now be obvious even to Le Gauke that a review is the very least that is needed, unless of course he naively feels that the court actions acted effectively as such a review.

Whitehouse and NTRT also of course managed, 3 weeks ago, to get a formal cross party letter sent to Le Gauke outlining the sad and ridiculous facts of s58, and ultimately requesting him to meet with NTRT asap.

Many thanks DP. You're right, without Whitehouse we'd be lost indeed. What they have achieved is quite simply amazing. Fighting alone, one would have nothing but a sympathetic lawyer saying 'well HMRC are the big boys'. They're not - they're just people like us. Same aspirations, same failings. Don't care what happens in the office Tuesday, I'm tuning in. I think some like me felt very distant and alone during the HR and CoA, waiting on the next letter from Mont. Probably why some felt the same about this new phase. But this co-ordinated writing to MPs and the plethora of info on the website has made me feel like I'm right back in there, fighting. Whoever put the Whitehouse deal together, you deserve many thanks.

[SLB]

MP on side!

Went to see my MP – Ed Davey – this morning with TSBT (HUGE thank you to TSBT for coming along at short notice) and had a very successful meeting. He was not aware of S58, but we managed to get a lot of information across in a very short space of time and he will contact Gaukey-boy to ask him to support the “Notice of Amendment” on Tuesday, so all good news. He was particularly interested that several people had received closure notices to enquiries with no further amendments i.e. HMRC’s acceptance of the scheme and that the Indian Govt. used S58 as an example to George Osborne when he was trying to lecture them over the Vodafone affair.

I was also lucky enough to have a good long chat with TSBT before we went in and some of the information he told me was just incredible. The amount of ammunition building up would have HMRC cacking it if they knew about it. Which for obvious reasons I can’t put it on here, but suffice to say the NTRT campaign has come a long way very quickly and we should all be very positive about it.

I urge everyone to see their MP if they haven’t yet. It made me feel like I was helping out the outstanding work from the whole NTRT team, even though it is in a very small way in comparison to their already tireless work.

It’s been said before, but it needs saying again – thank you to all involved who have got us this far, it really in an incredible effort and we’d be sunk without you.

[OnYourBikeGB]

Fired off another round of emails last night, following up on my meeting earlier in the week. Its been an interesting week in many ways, and one that definitely feels like a turning of the tide. I had to laugh when I saw an article on the BBC website describing the most popular methods of avoiding tax. I think people are sick of being screwed over by HMRC and the old avoidance = evasion bollox doesn't fool anyone anymore.

Next week is going to be very interesting too. But this time it's not us that's feeling the heat. There's a storm brewing, and it's not coming our direction. Well done to all the NTRT team and Whitehouse. Inspirational stuff, you've kept us all in the fight. I can't wait to hear what else has been discovered, but I'll wait until the team drop the bombshells.

Thanks also to Nigel Mills MP. A man of principle who no doubt has put himself out on a limb for us while others in higher offices, and those yanked so easily back into line, showed themselves to be self-serving hypocrites who's words may as well have been written on water.

[Iron Condor]

How advisers to stars lobbied MPs to make it a human right to avoid tax | Business | The Observer

Gauke confirmed to the Observer: "We tabled an amendment on the retrospective element of this clause which closed down an avoidance scheme" but he stressed it was simply a parliamentary manoeuvre to gain clarification. He said the Tories had "enthusiastically supported" the Labour government's efforts to close tax avoidance schemes and the amendment was never pushed to a vote.

A campaign to overturn the retrospective elements of the act continues with some of the affected claiming financial hardship as a result of its introduction. But their cause will not have been helped by the revelation that among their ranks were a multi-millionaire comic, TV stars, City traders and super wealthy financiers.

Financial expert Richard Murphy said Carr's travails had catapulted the issue of tax avoidance to the top of the political agenda. "The public mood is moving against tax avoidance," Murphy said. "People really do want every one to be in this together."

[DonkeyRhubarb]

How advisers to stars lobbied MPs to make it a human right to avoid tax | Business | The Observer

Gauke confirmed to the Observer: "We tabled an amendment on the retrospective element of this clause which closed down an avoidance scheme" but he stressed it was simply a parliamentary manoeuvre to gain clarification. He said the Tories had "enthusiastically supported" the Labour government's efforts to close tax avoidance schemes and the amendment was never pushed to a vote.

A campaign to overturn the retrospective elements of the act continues with some of the affected claiming financial hardship as a result of its introduction. But their cause will not have been helped by the revelation that among their ranks were a multi-millionaire comic, TV stars, City traders and super wealthy financiers.

Financial expert Richard Murphy said Carr's travails had catapulted the issue of tax avoidance to the top of the political agenda. "The public mood is moving against tax avoidance," Murphy said. "People really do want every one to be in this together."

This is not about Section 58.

It is referring to another piece of retro legislation introduced by Labour in 2009 but this was only backdated 3 months (not 7 years!)

Whitehouse represented the scheme promoter "NT Advisors".

This looks like sloppy journalism to me and I doubt the facts stack up.

[Toocan]

How advisers to stars lobbied MPs to make it a human right to avoid tax | Business | The Observer

Gauke confirmed to the Observer: "We tabled an amendment on the retrospective element of this clause which closed down an avoidance scheme" but he stressed it was simply a parliamentary manoeuvre to gain clarification. He said the Tories had "enthusiastically supported" the Labour government's efforts to close tax avoidance schemes and the amendment was never pushed to a vote.

A campaign to overturn the retrospective elements of the act continues with some of the affected claiming financial hardship as a result of its introduction. But their cause will not have been helped by the revelation that among their ranks were a multi-millionaire comic, TV stars, City traders and super wealthy financiers.

Financial expert Richard Murphy said Carr's travails had catapulted the issue of tax avoidance to the top of the political agenda. "The public mood is moving against tax avoidance," Murphy said. "People really do want every one to be in this together."

It can be seen that the Guardian has got this wrong by looking at Parliaments report at the time:

Legislative Scrutiny: Finance Bill; Government Response to the Committee's Sixteenth Report of Session 2008-09, Coroners and Justice Bill (certified inquests) - Human Rights Joint Committee

Nothing to do with our complaint and not even a similar situation.

HMRC did not accept claims in the NT advisor scheme, they did in the DTA scheme.

Note paragraph 1.22 of the above Parliamentary report - We're still waiting for this.