No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

HMRC on strike

you can say what you want about HMRC today as they are on strike ....

[BrilloPad]

you can say what you want about HMRC today as they are on strike ....

I think Mr B still looks at this on his day off. Its his hobby. Hi Mr B.

[marcuss]

Good point! Lets not bother.

Montp have got tons of money for legal fees. And if not tough luck.

Anyone who can afford a CTD should have one by now. Personally I am going bankrupt so they can add all the extra interest they want.

Just a further thought....

As THEY are saying that 'we won in all courts so pay up', won't they use this simple argument in tribunals? And worse still will the tribunal accept this argument (a lot of MPs seem to be!).

:-(

[BrilloPad]

Just a further thought....

As THEY are saying that 'we won in all courts so pay up', won't they use this simple argument in tribunals? And worse still will the tribunal accept this argument (a lot of MPs seem to be!).

:-(

I agree - I think they will use that argument. And the tribunal will accept the argument. But I am sure Montp will be arguing that HMRC have lied - alot. I think, given that the tribunals are biased, we will lose(IANAL). But it gives time to persuade MPs and for ECHR to proceed.

[marcuss]

I agree - I think they will use that argument. And the tribunal will accept the argument. But I am sure Montp will be arguing that HMRC have lied - alot. I think, given that the tribunals are biased, we will lose(IANAL). But it gives time to persuade MPs and for ECHR to proceed.

Oh! So ECHR is the ONLY hope then!!!!

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

Tax Courts & HR

Just a further thought....

As THEY are saying that 'we won in all courts so pay up', won't they use this simple argument in tribunals? And worse still will the tribunal accept this argument (a lot of MPs seem to be!).

:-(

The Tax Courts cannot refer to, allow inclusion of in a defense or rely on as case law - any litigation matter on the grounds of Human Rights. That includes the Huitson case.

[Tax_shouldnt_be_taxing]

Just a thought...

If our MP's see sense and manage to get an amendment to s58 tabled and passed

What's to stop HMRC trying to challenge that in the courts, and thus racking up legal fees for MP, plus adding more interest while we wait the outcome?

Wouldn't put it past Hector to pull a stunt like this

Not quite sure how that would work. It would be like taking your boss to court and still supporting them being your boss. But I would expect that in any event, it will go to court - the Tax Courts - but now with the law on a level and fair playing field. That's what we're actually wanting.

[lucozade]

Meeting my MP this Saturday

I'm getting myself prepared for my MP meeting on Saturday morning.

Taking along the following key documents:

H004-HMRC_letters_A_+_B_-_from_taking_4_cases_to_SC_to_BN66_with_no_warning .pdf
H006-HMRC_contradictions_re_dates.pdf
I009-_HMRC_knew_about_the_scheme_for_14_years.pdf
Local MP lobbying toolkit - April 2012.pdf
Presentation to MPs - April 2012.ppt
Toolkit for responding to Gauke standard response - May 2012 (4).doc

From my own perspective the thing that really bugs the life out of me is that "we" were all pushed into schemes as a result of the totally uncertainly over IR35. Here we are some time on fighting for having been in a scheme and yet new IR35 guidelines have come out to what amounts to more uncertainty.

I really want to ask - "Is the Government intent in destroying small businesses as I cannot see anyway of operating correctly even if I do pay more NI/PAYE I feel I won't have paid the right amount or that I'll be targetted in the future with some other nonsense approach by HMRC"

[TalkingCheese]

Slightly off topic but as you mention it...

...I really want to ask - "Is the Government intent in destroying small businesses as I cannot see anyway of operating correctly even if I do pay more NI/PAYE I feel I won't have paid the right amount or that I'll be targetted in the future with some other nonsense approach by HMRC"...

My sentiments exactly ! Contracting is a necessary part of todays UK economy and the government seem hell bent on destroying it with IR35. I read the test questions yesterday and it seems that if you are smart with money and business you will be punished. If you waste a bit of money and have some dodgy customers you will be rewarded with a low risk IR35 rating. Being an employee and then becoming a contractor for the same company is one thing, but being a single entity with the flexibility to provide professional services to customers for short term engagements comes with a lot of risk (much like many small businesses) and should not be targeted for this kind of money making exercise by HMRC.

(...climbs down off soap box)

[lucozade]

My sentiments exactly ! Contracting is a necessary part of todays UK economy and the government seem hell bent on destroying it with IR35. I read the test questions yesterday and it seems that if you are smart with money and business you will be punished. If you waste a bit of money and have some dodgy customers you will be rewarded with a low risk IR35 rating. Being an employee and then becoming a contractor for the same company is one thing, but being a single entity with the flexibility to provide professional services to customers for short term engagements comes with a lot of risk (much like many small businesses) and should not be targeted for this kind of money making exercise by HMRC.

(...climbs down off soap box)

I just don't get the short term versus long term engagement thing.

Big IT companies (HP, Fujitsu) enter into 5 year agreements with Government departments. Why is this any different to me contracting services to a company for 6 months at a time for 5 years with no pension provision, etc.

Do HMRC think I only look for contract work to avoid paying tax! Most recently I took a role with HP and even although I was prepared to accept a permanent role they offered me a contract due to an employment freeze!

Not the right thread to bring this up I know but in some ways THIS IS WHY WE ARE WHERE WE ARE TODAY.