No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[swede]

Can anyone give a one line summary where we are at please?
I'm lost.

I was using a EBT loan scheme since 2010 - 2012.

Does it mean i must pay up now? Or am I safe until a tribunal rules (whenever that may be)

Sorry, but I would stake my life on the former (well, 90 days from when you receive the payment notice). Thats the crux of the legislation.

[deckster]

It's not clear.

One of the goons at the JR said it applied to any returns filed after October 2004, which is when Montpelier were issued with the SRN, but I don't think that's right.

Just had a look back and the first SATR that mentions scheme reference numbers is 2004-05; this is consistent with legislation introduced in the 2004 budget. It's hard to see therefore that 2003-04 returns and before could 'fall' into scope for the accelerated payment rules, given that DOTAS a) didn't exist, and b) couldn't be declared before 2004-05.

Don't quote me on that mind

[ASB]

The devil will presumably be in the detail of the budget notes.

It seems to me that although it is unpalatable it will achieve its aims. To prevent anybody even really contemplating any form of avoidance scheme.

Going forwards that is not an entirely unreasonable way - in theory. In practice it is. If you do decide something works, then you pay up. But how do you ever manage to get your case heard?

The real way of dealing with it is to write sensible law in the first place. The trouble is that this, couple with GAAR seems to me to remove any responsibility whatsoever on the legislature to actually write workable legislation that states its aims, defines them, and implements them.

As for the further retrospective nature of it. Well, that is just abhorrent. It violates all principles of our justice system. The major one being certainty at the time of action.

[orientalist]

CTDs

So if we pay up now using our CTD's, do we get the interest portion we allowed for back? what then happens to the interest accumulating if we lose on appeal?

Or if i haven't got enough CTDs to cover full amount does the CTD go against the amount of tax they say is due and I then have to find the interest seperately if we lose on appeal? so there was no point in the CTD then.

Also how do we dispute the amount due, I don't agree with their figures and have told them, which figure do i pay mine or theirs? Will Montpelier have enough resource to help us all with the calculations/ settlements?

[Britspud]

Calculating what I owe?

Hi all,

Hope you're all as well as can be expected.

Haven't been on here for a long time...I was happy in the knowledge that the Tax Tribunals would probably take ages and had put it at the back of my mind...and now I'm having to contemplate coughing up!

So a couple of questions if I may:

1. I've looked up the amounts that are shown in dispute on the HRMC gateway thingy for each of the years I was in the scheme. So I presume these are just the income tax bits, and don't include NICs or interest?

2. A while back, someone provided a spreadsheet which allowed you to stick in your years disputed amounts and it would work out roughly what you owe at a point in time. Does anyone have a link to it?

Thanks all,

J.

[jbryce]

DOTAS Investigation and stuff

Just had a look back and the first SATR that mentions scheme reference numbers is 2004-05; this is consistent with legislation introduced in the 2004 budget. It's hard to see therefore that 2003-04 returns and before could 'fall' into scope for the accelerated payment rules, given that DOTAS a) didn't exist, and b) couldn't be declared before 2004-05.

Don't quote me on that mind

My accountant has just rung me to say that his, and colleagues, understanding is that if you have an open dispute/investigation/whatever related to DOTAS then you will be hit by the new legislation. If you do not have an open investigation, then until such time as you are in dispute (subject to the normal time constraints) then you will not be impacted.

If you're thinking about signing up to a scheme in the future. Don't.

[Britspud]

Hi all,

Hope you're all as well as can be expected.

Haven't been on here for a long time...I was happy in the knowledge that the Tax Tribunals would probably take ages and had put it at the back of my mind...and now I'm having to contemplate coughing up!

So a couple of questions if I may:

1. I've looked up the amounts that are shown in dispute on the HRMC gateway thingy for each of the years I was in the scheme. So I presume these are just the income tax bits, and don't include NICs or interest?

2. A while back, someone provided a spreadsheet which allowed you to stick in your years disputed amounts and it would work out roughly what you owe at a point in time. Does anyone have a link to it?

Thanks all,

J.

Ah...I've found the spreadsheet!! So I think it gives me my income tax liability plus interest worked out up until 2010. I must have a look and see if I can extend it to 2013. Unless anyone knows of an updated one already available?

Thx.

[OnYourBikeGB]

It says something about our system when an aggressive retrospective tax-grab against SME businesses goes undebated and unreported while 1p off the price of beer hits the headlines. You couldn't make it up. I see we can cash in our pensions and pay tax on that too, a sneaky way of getting back the tax allowance and destined to hit the most desperate again and leave them with nothing. Despicable. The little rich boys in Government may not know the price of milk, but they certainly know how to make life unaffordable.

[PlaneSailing]

Missing word

I notice that the word 'retrospective' has again been missed from the budget notes. Devious and underhand way to hide the true intentions. Come on Hector tell us the truth.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

In today's HMRC note it says 43,000 taxpayers will be impacted.

If you total up the number of users in the table on Page 7 of the consultation it comes to 42,800.

So that table pretty much tells us who is on the hit list.

Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs)...........6,300
Contractor avoidance........................16,000
Partnership losses.............................12,000
Stamp Duty Land Tax........................8,500
TOTAL..........................................42,800