No To Retro Tax – Campaign Against Section 58 Finance Act 2008

[Ninja]

Just a thought

While I support DR and Co in their efforts to get some traction though another route, as I really don't relish having to pay an unjust and pernicious arbitrary penalty for trying to get some certainty in my tax affairs in a legal manner, there is only one outcome I can see from this.

The political process is intended to maintain the status quo. That is what it is there for.. Changing the will of the executive and the civil service will never happen from within, especially to reverse legislation. The whole intention of the display of aimless, ill-informed stupidity called Parliament is the opposite. It is a charade of representative democracy and has been for a very long time.

<rant>
History shows us that the only real way to influence this is:
1) an extended direct action campaign (anyone see the Queen and Martin McGuinness ?)
2) A front page media campaign causing politicians to immediately alter course to the meme of the moment (hence the moral cesspit of envy politics we are in now)
3) Offering a quid pro quo to decision making cabinet misters or civil servants for when they leave office (innumerable revolving door examples)
4) Court rulings (which we have exhausted due to the fabian cancer eating away at our judiciary)

The game of westminster is nothing but a way to occupy time for a load of idiots, 22 year old SPADS and vested interests while the actual country rapidly turns into a third world nation.

Its going to be like the courts all over again. There is no such thing as natural justice, historical fought for principles no longer matter, no one gives a rat s**t if you are going bankrupt or not. What matters is the MPs profile on the BBC politics shows and the Civil service never having to admit any wrong doing.

Look at really serious stuff like BSE, Windscale, the Iraq war, rendition and torture. You think 3000 persecuted individuals or weird ideas like legal expectation and common law rights are of any importance.
</rant>

I hope The lobby company helps, I really do.

Maybe we need a celeb to back us.
Look what happened for the Gurkha's when Joanna Lumley got involved. That was a lost cause too.

[BrilloPad]

Maybe we need a celeb to back us.
Look what happened for the Gurkha's when Joanna Lumley got involved. That was a lost cause too.

Jimmy Carr?

[StellaFan]

Jimmy Carr?

Gary Barlow seems to know a couple of people

[Disgusted of Coventry]

Maybe we need a celeb to back us.
Look what happened for the Gurkha's when Joanna Lumley got involved. That was a lost cause too.

Terry Pratchett's most recent novel contains a brief but vehement rejection of retrospective Law.

It's almost certainly just a coincidence, but I DID wonder....

[Emigre]

The Long Haul

Lets put a few things into perspective.

The best time to act was before FA 2008 S58(4) became law. That didn't happen, and please lets not get our pea shooters out about who could or should have done something, the answer is all of us.

It was not until s58 received Royal Assent and CNs were issued on the basis of it that we had the legal right to challenge it. That was done. We lost. There are a number of reasons for that which could have changed the outcome but that is water under the bridge.

FA2008 s58 is primary legislation. The Courts cannot change primary legislation, only Parliament can do that. This is why NTRT was formed, to lobby Government to ultimately repeal the retrospective elements of S58. There is a process for getting Parliament to change/repeal primary legislation and that process needs to be followed. That is what, together with input advice and direction from Whitehouse, we are doing. There are several steps along the way - lobbying MPs to support, speak, table amendments and so on. That has been going on and continues. Next week we hit the report stage which is simply another step. We all know that Gauke is spouting facts that simply cannot be substantiated but we have keep batting back every inaccuracy and "lie" (bollox, take the inverted commas off) until he understands the truth.

We have some extremely good supporters in Westminster amongst the Tories, Labour, LibDem and SNP. This will count. We are on the moral highground and no politician likes to be seen to cave in to anything. That more than anything else is what we are fighting.

The NTRT team give their time freely in pursuit of justice. from a personal perspective, I am on the bench so could choose to do anything else I like but this matters to me. Yes, the money side would kill me but I am driven by principles. However, we cannot do this on our own. The more MPs that people talk to the better. We will always need funds. Why? Very simple. Whitehouse costs money and so do good lawyers to pursue our case against HMRC for their deceitful part in this travesty.

I will be honest. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and indeed to express it. However, it really hurts and p*sses me off when we get a pile of negativity because an amendment gets pulled or someone feels an MP didn't perform as well as expected. That guy has potentially put his cock, sorry promotional potential, on the block for us - give him space. How do I feel about it? Don't ask, I'd hate to get on the wrong side of the moderators. This is a war of attrition. Gauke hopes that we will pack up and go home after this Finance Bill. Well Gauke, there is not a millimetre of intent to pack in within me and I know I can speak for everyone of the NTRT team when I say that. We are here until this deceitful travesty is properly resolved. If it results in heads rolling I will not flinch one bit.

Take a look Gauke, you could already have done better.

[marcuss]

Lets put a few things into perspective.

The best time to act was before FA 2008 S58(4) became law. That didn't happen, and please lets not get our pea shooters out about who could or should have done something, the answer is all of us.

...
...
...
Take a look Gauke, you could already have done better.

Emigre, very well put and agree with you whole heartedly.

You (may) have more insight into what goes on whereas many here do not understand the workings (should say sc*?ing) of the system we are up against. Many are facing bankruptcies hence the fear comes into play here...

Anyway, there is nothing from Mont for a while anyone knows where they are at? Surely there must be a timelimit by which they have to do something in Europe, right?

[OnYourBikeGB]

Lets put a few things into perspective.

The best time to act was before FA 2008 S58(4) became law. That didn't happen, and please lets not get our pea shooters out about who could or should have done something, the answer is all of us.

It was not until s58 received Royal Assent and CNs were issued on the basis of it that we had the legal right to challenge it. That was done. We lost. There are a number of reasons for that which could have changed the outcome but that is water under the bridge.

FA2008 s58 is primary legislation. The Courts cannot change primary legislation, only Parliament can do that. This is why NTRT was formed, to lobby Government to ultimately repeal the retrospective elements of S58. There is a process for getting Parliament to change/repeal primary legislation and that process needs to be followed. That is what, together with input advice and direction from Whitehouse, we are doing. There are several steps along the way - lobbying MPs to support, speak, table amendments and so on. That has been going on and continues. Next week we hit the report stage which is simply another step. We all know that Gauke is spouting facts that simply cannot be substantiated but we have keep batting back every inaccuracy and "lie" (bollox, take the inverted commas off) until he understands the truth.

We have some extremely good supporters in Westminster amongst the Tories, Labour, LibDem and SNP. This will count. We are on the moral highground and no politician likes to be seen to cave in to anything. That more than anything else is what we are fighting.

The NTRT team give their time freely in pursuit of justice. from a personal perspective, I am on the bench so could choose to do anything else I like but this matters to me. Yes, the money side would kill me but I am driven by principles. However, we cannot do this on our own. The more MPs that people talk to the better. We will always need funds. Why? Very simple. Whitehouse costs money and so do good lawyers to pursue our case against HMRC for their deceitful part in this travesty.

I will be honest. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and indeed to express it. However, it really hurts and p*sses me off when we get a pile of negativity because an amendment gets pulled or someone feels an MP didn't perform as well as expected. That guy has potentially put his cock, sorry promotional potential, on the block for us - give him space. How do I feel about it? Don't ask, I'd hate to get on the wrong side of the moderators. This is a war of attrition. Gauke hopes that we will pack up and go home after this Finance Bill. Well Gauke, there is not a millimetre of intent to pack in within me and I know I can speak for everyone of the NTRT team when I say that. We are here until this deceitful travesty is properly resolved. If it results in heads rolling I will not flinch one bit.

Take a look Gauke, you could already have done better.

WHS - I think the negativity comes from us not understanding how the wheels turn. I mean, there's slow and there's sllllooooooowwwwwwww. I think Nigel Mills and any other MP who backs us deserve a huge thank-you and respect as well as the NTRT team and Whitehouse. It is frustrating to have to go through these steps, but we would never have got there on our own. It is clear to me that Whitehouse understand how the game is played, and we don't. So step by step, inch by inch, we move forward.

[BrilloPad]

I will be honest. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and indeed to express it. However, it really hurts and p*sses me off when we get a pile of negativity because an amendment gets pulled or someone feels an MP didn't perform as well as expected. That guy has potentially put his cock, sorry promotional potential, on the block for us - give him space. How do I feel about it? Don't ask, I'd hate to get on the wrong side of the moderators. This is a war of attrition. Gauke hopes that we will pack up and go home after this Finance Bill. Well Gauke, there is not a millimetre of intent to pack in within me and I know I can speak for everyone of the NTRT team when I say that. We are here until this deceitful travesty is properly resolved. If it results in heads rolling I will not flinch one bit.

I agree with everything you have said. BUT some people here are going to go bankrupt. People are very much on edge and will do all sorts of weird illogical stuff. I am not providing an excuse just an explanation.

Heads are going to roll one way or the other. Its a fight to the bitter end. Neither side is prepared to concede.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Why aren't more people joining NTRT?

We now have a lot of members but there are many who haven't joined.

The question I keep asking myself is why?

Is it the minimum £200 which is putting people off? Or something else?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[slogger]

We now have a lot of members but there are many who haven't joined.

The question I keep asking myself is why?

Is it the minimum £200 which is putting people off? Or something else?

Can anyone shed any light on this?

personally too much for me at the moment - in process of remortgaging so have cash on hand for any 'eventualities' - be happy to donate then!

btw seen this:-

HMRC writes off £5.2bn in uncollected tax

our amount seems nothing in big scheme of things!