New PCG IR35 Questionnaire

[Kate Cottrell]

Kate,

Can I ask if you have stated this view during your work on the IR35 Forum (ie. as one of the architects of these tests)?

Hello Runes

These tests, in a similar form, were first put by PCG to the OTS under the banner of the small business review of IR35 and were rejected by OTS and the Government at that time. I am not an architect of the tests as such but have tried to make sure that the wording and the scores are in line with the IR35 legislation and case law precedent. Otherwise, on the basis that the IR35 legislation has not changed they would be pointless. My personal view, which I have stated to everyone, including the Forum is that I think the business tests add a further layer of complication to IR35 and although currently designed to simply show the level of risk of investigation they will be used to decide IR35 status, which seems to be already happening! I do not think we need these tests. No doubt time will tell.

Kate Cottrell

[Sockpuppet]

I think Kate is spot on here. This is a case of business as usual.

I've always thought if you act like a business (and not a permie avoiding NI) then you'll have no problems and when I say act like a business I mean in real life not just to HMRC.

[runes]

Hello Runes

... have tried to make sure... ...scores are in line with the IR35 legislation and case law...

Kate Cottrell

Hi Kate,

I suppose the wording of the test is only one element, its the scoring that counts for all practical purposes. So are you saying that it's likely that when (and if) the scoring scheme is made public, you expect the statistics from the businesses that take the test to be in-line with Case Law? By in-line I mean that's the vast majority come out as "Low Risk" which corresponds to "Not Caught". I am not asking you to disclose the actual scoring (which I assume is confidential), but if you have personally made sure they are "in-line" with case then you must have has some statistical basis in which to base the numbers.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Hi Kate,

I suppose the wording of the test is only one element, its the scoring that counts for all practical purposes. So are you saying that it's likely that when (and if) the scoring scheme is made public, you expect the statistics from the businesses that take the test to be in-line with Case Law? By in-line I mean that's the vast majority come out as "Low Risk" which corresponds to "Not Caught". I am not asking you to disclose the actual scoring (which I assume is confidential), but if you have personally made sure they are "in-line" with case then you must have has some statistical basis in which to base the numbers.

I think you are missing the point here Runes. When Kate refers to case law she means the individual tax tribunals that have formed the legal precedents for determining status under IR35 - just because there have not been that many cases that have gone to tribunal it doesn't mean that the majority of contractors would be outside IR35.

[TheFaQQer]

Anyone been scored low yet ?

If you read post 8 in the thread...

Low Risk

Which is surprising as I seemed to answer most of the question contrary to what I'd expect to be the "right" answer.

[TheFaQQer]

The test scores me as high risk. The current contract I'm working on is the most IR35 friendly one I've ever had, and I'd back myself (never mind the PCG and / or Qdos) to fight it successfully.

[malvolio]

The test scores me as high risk. The current contract I'm working on is the most IR35 friendly one I've ever had, and I'd back myself (never mind the PCG and / or Qdos) to fight it successfully.

But the tests aren't about IR35, they are about "Are you a genuine business". Big difference.

[Bunk]

But the tests aren't about IR35, they are about "Are you a genuine business". Big difference.

So the test puts him at high risk of not being a genuine business even though (and I'm taking Faq's word for it) he's outside IR35? What's the point of it then?

[scooby]

So the test puts him at high risk of not being a genuine business even though (and I'm taking Faq's word for it) he's outside IR35? What's the point of it then?

Not just me who doesnt get it then... Await NLUK to come get you!!

[TheFaQQer]

But the tests aren't about IR35, they are about "Are you a genuine business". Big difference.

So, how can you be outside IR35 and not a genuine business?