24 months again

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I suspect I know the answer but - does becoming a permie employee of a consulting firm reset the clock? The outfit I work for is small and seems to have a "don't ask don't tell" policy on 24 month expenses rules - loads of EEs have exceeded 24 months in one location - I did stuff for them as a contractor and then accepted a permie role (I have a good excuse - honest). They pay my travel and accomodation, but I suspect we are (I am really) in breach of the rules as we passed 24 months a while back (albeit with a few bits and pieces of other work). Not sure how to raise this - if I ask, I'll probably get told I can't claim any more - OTOH I don't want to be out of pocket for travel or if Hector comes knocking.

[Bunk]

I think this is more their problem than yours. I'm pretty sure they can keep paying your travel expenses for as long as they want, it's just that after 24 months they'll need to pay tax on them, which is of interest to us as contractors but isn't for you as a permie. I don't know if there's any BIK implications after 24 months though.

[malvolio]

24 months doesn't apply since you will have a designated permanent place of work and any time you get sent somewhere else to work it is a de facto temporary workplace. The problem us contractors face is that after 24 months a temporary workplace gets re-designated as permanent. That's something that won't happen to a permie unless you were claiming expenses from your previous permanent location to your new one, in which case they become a BIK after 24 months.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

24 months doesn't apply since you will have a designated permanent place of work and any time you get sent somewhere else to work it is a de facto temporary workplace. The problem us contractors face is that after 24 months a temporary workplace gets re-designated as permanent. That's something that won't happen to a permie unless you were claiming expenses from your previous permanent location to your new one, in which case they become a BIK after 24 months.

I don't have a designated permanent place of work - it's just wherever the gig is. I know about the problems "you contractors" face as I was one for many years. My main question is about how the fact that I'm now back (against my will really) the place I did almost 24 months of contracting not that long ago I am worried that I'm at risk of a personal tax liability if I continue to accept tax free payments for travel and accommodation.

Bunk - I don't think the company is going to wind up paying tax that is down to me, but I may be wrong.

[malvolio]

I don't have a designated permanent place of work - it's just wherever the gig is. I know about the problems "you contractors" face as I was one for many years. My main question is about how the fact that I'm now back (against my will really) the place I did almost 24 months of contracting not that long ago I am worried that I'm at risk of a personal tax liability if I continue to accept tax free payments for travel and accommodation.

Bunk - I don't think the company is going to wind up paying tax that is down to me, but I may be wrong.

You're a permie, now, not a contractor. Such things are your employer's problem, not yours. You will have a permanent place of work, even if it's nominally your head office. In 20 years of permanent and very mobile employement I never once caught a BIK for travel.

However, why ask us, especially if you don't like the answer. Talk to your HR team. Ten gets you one they won't even understand the question.

[SueEllen]

Peoplesoft bloke - where does your employer expect it's employees to "work from" or "train from"* if they are in between placements for a few days/weeks?

If you can answer that then that's your permanent place of work and as already stated you can claim travel expenses for anywhere that isn't that place.

Not everything in permanent employment contracts is written down.

*you may sit around doing nothing but it's called something.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You're a permie, now, not a contractor. Such things are your employer's problem, not yours. You will have a permanent place of work, even if it's nominally your head office. In 20 years of permanent and very mobile employement I never once caught a BIK for travel.

However, why ask us, especially if you don't like the answer. Talk to your HR team. Ten gets you one they won't even understand the question.

Why ask you? I thought someone might know. I'm sorry if I seemed ungrateful - I'm really not. You are right about HR except we're so small we don't have HR. Are you really saying 24 month rule doesn't apply to permies? I'm only labouring the point cos her indoors worked for Steria and they refused to pay expenses if you were on a gig for >24 months - citing HMRC but maybe they were just being gits about it.

My precise question was contractor related in that I need to know if the 24 months gets reset if you go permie but end up in the same location.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Peoplesoft bloke - where does your employer expect it's employees to "work from" or "train from"* if they are in between placements for a few days/weeks?

If you can answer that then that's your permanent place of work and as already stated you can claim travel expenses for anywhere that isn't that place.

Not everything in permanent employment contracts is written down.

*you may sit around doing nothing but it's called something.

In that case it must be Home.

[Moscow Mule]

In that case it must be Home.

If you have a contract of employment, it should be stated in there.

[mudskipper]

A guy I used to work with lives in Scotland. His employer's company provided him as a consultant to ex-clientCo. He was a regular employee - not a director. His employer paid all his hotel and travel expenses. After 2 years, Hector came knocking for BIK tax on the expenses.