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Starting work before a contract or incorporation - how bad a screwup?

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    Starting work before a contract or incorporation - how bad a screwup?

    Hi all,
    Apologies for another set of questions – I was looking at incorporating this week whilst I waited for contracts and a start date - and then events outpaced me and the client wanted me to start today; good news in one sense.
    Problem is I actually haven’t incorporated yet or signed the agency contract and am obviously very worried about the risk I’ve exposed myself to, probably stupidly. There is an excellent relationship between all parties but the client’s needs outpaced the contract from the agency who gave it to me over the weekend.
    I’ve currently told the agency that I need to get professional advice on the contract considering the short time I’ve had the contract and am happy to go on the handshakes already made – though explicitly do not agree with all terms on the contract and have fed back some queries already.
    I’m going to go with Nixon Williams to incorporate and as they seem to have some reasonable feedback on here and am going to try the incorporation tonight.
    I normally would never do this but had to make a quick decision on my own, based on the relationships, to go to the site. Nothing will be too taxing for the first few days, as it’s just absorbing information – although I know it leaves me very exposed in several ways.
    So, a couple of questions, if you’d be so kind (I will probably ask a few more about the main contract in another):
    1) I’d like to get the contract checked out for IR35 - was thinking Qdos unless there’s somewhere better? – bit worried they’re saying 5 days but will talk to them, and NW, on the phone to see if this can happen quicker as I obviously need .
    2) I’d also like to get the contract checked out in general for all the other contractor pitfalls, as it’s my first one, do you know anyone that does this? Qdos as well?
    3) Is there any way to mitigate the risk of charging for a not being incorporated at the moment whilst this is setup? I can imagine that I’ve put myself in a difficult position for IR35 amongst other things. I’d obviously rather charge for these days but if I have to write them off I will.
    4) Will freely take any other advice/ questions that you may think relevant.

    I’m hoping if I can get an accountant and incorporate tonight/ tomorrow and find some helpful people to give the contracts a once over tomorrow I may be ok(ish)

    I appreciate all this is a nightmare so deserve a bit of flaming (and I’m a bit unfocussed on the questions) but any advice would be greatly received. Trying to dig myself out of a hole

    #2
    Too late for any contract negotiation. You have turned up on site so have accepted the contract. If it is inside IR35 you are screwed. Saying that, the agent might allow changes retrospectively but it is by the goodness of his own heart to do it. I wouldn't.

    No problems with incorporation at the moment. You can worry about that when you come to invoice but....

    If you don't have a LTD the contract is directly with you i.e. you are named on the contract? with your name on it?? and talking of billing did you check the invoicing dates and also the payment time? I hope they didn't try for a 60 day cause you just accepted it. Did you check notice period?

    Don't speak to the agent about anything except continue to talk to him about getting the contract, reviewing it and send it back. He might be too stupid to have realised himself. Do not go on about it being too late and apologising etc. Carry on as normal and hope you catch him off gaurd.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for the quick answer as always Northernladuk - as an aside I grew up on 2000AD so always happy to see your avatar.

      I was fearful about the acceptance of the contract. I did have advice that the specific refusal of it would hold but I can also believe that may not be the case.

      I'm definitely going to continue as they definitely have an interest in making sure that the client and I are happy in this, but the goodness of the heart part with shortly be tested.

      So onto trying to dig myself out- have you any suggestions on companies for getting contract itself for both IR35 and other bits?

      PS 30 days after invoicing at the end of the month but I'm going to negotiate that with the client (although they agreed to make it 14 over the phone) so not too bad.
      Notice period was 7 days.
      The bits I had problems with were substitution (which may not be too bad), payment terms, restrictions on future work (as it went against 2003 Conduct of agencies and therefore was unlawful) and location. Just a little.

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        #4
        Edit:

        I WAS going to go for Nixon Williams but they've just put their rates up by £20 to £95 and haven't answered when I filled in their callback section on their website.

        Northernladuk, I've seen you used to be with sjd. Still recommend them?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by beardedfool View Post
          So onto trying to dig myself out- have you any suggestions on companies for getting contract itself for both IR35 and other bits?
          From an IR35 perspective you have the likes of;
          Qdos Consulting - Taxation and VAT - Employment Law - Insurance - IR35
          Bauer & Cottrell - Expert IR35, Section 660 and Employment Status Advice
          Contract Reviews

          A number of our clients have dealt with all three. Roger Sinclair (Contract lawyer (UK) Roger Sinclair Egos Ltd) also undertakes IR35 contract reviews, but also has a broad focus on contract advice and negotiation. He might be your best bet.
          2012 CUK Reader Awards - '...Capital City Accountancy, all of whom were outside the top three yet still won compliments from CUK readers for their services' - well, its not an award, but we'll take it! - Best Accountant (for IT contractors) category
          2011 CUK Reader Awards - Top 3 - Best Accountant (for IT contractors) category
          || Check us out at: http://www.linkedin.com/company/capi...ccountancy-ltd

          Comment


            #6
            Am a 2000AD addict I am afraid, loft full of my collection including first issues with bionic arm stickers and flier with first edition if people remember those.. but anyway...

            I am still with SJD and very happy with them, well the Manchester branch anyway. Their spreadsheet for tracking costs down the penny is ace (to be fair not seen anyone elses).

            I also use QDOS for checking as I have my insurance through them and they give free checks with it.

            You can accept a role with the addition of 'subject to contract review' on the end. If you ditch the contract they cannot hold you to notice period etc but don't know what to do in the event of a quick start. Maybe just delay them and don't start. They won't bin you for asking for a few days delay.. personal reasons of course <cough>

            30 days is ok at a push. I have been on that 2 years and not a whiff of a problem.. which is great until it goes wrong. Push for 14 if you can. Notice period for what it is worth is ok

            and add who the contract is with to your list. If it is with you named then you are in a bit of trouble. It has to be your LTD and not mention you by name. How you go about that not having an LTD I don't know. This could be you joker for getting it changed possibly.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              Does Alan Grant have anything to do with 2000AD? I actually knew him when I lived in Scotland (village called Moniaive) though not very well. Had a huge house called Glenluairt. I know he's some sort of artist and was relatively admired by strangers....

              His missus is called Sue just in case you think I'm making this up!

              They used to have a Comic Festival every year, and I went down with my old TV21 and Countdown comics. Was told they were worthless just because I'd cut the pictures out and scribbled in biro on them! I had issue one too (of Countdown)...

              Comment


                #8
                I would also be careful as to how you categorise payments. Always make them as dividends. If the contract review turns out bad and you are burned by IR35, you can always recategorise dividends as PAYE by making a deemed payment by mid April next year - and it's not considered late.

                However, the reverse is not true. Once you've made a salary payment to yourself, you have to make the corresponding PAYE payment at the end of the month/quarter.

                If you have enough personal cash, I woud avoid receiving payments until you have the structures set up.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by stek View Post
                  Does Alan Grant have anything to do with 2000AD? I actually knew him when I lived in Scotland (village called Moniaive) though not very well. Had a huge house called Glenluairt. I know he's some sort of artist and was relatively admired by strangers....

                  His missus is called Sue just in case you think I'm making this up!

                  They used to have a Comic Festival every year, and I went down with my old TV21 and Countdown comics. Was told they were worthless just because I'd cut the pictures out and scribbled in biro on them! I had issue one too (of Countdown)...
                  Ye he is one of the writers in the early days

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grant_(writer)
                  'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                    Ye he is one of the writers in the early days

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grant_(writer)
                    That's him!!

                    And this is his and Sue's house, now for sale, well cheap cos it's a cracking pad, nine bedrooms, separate cottages, all for £850k....

                    Mind you, having lived in the village, nice though it is, there's bugger all to do, oil heating a fortune, nearest football team Queen of the South and no kebab shop....

                    Glenluiart House - Residential property available in Moniaive   South West Scotland

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