IR35 - how many investigations per year?

[craig1]

I can name 3 without even thinking hard.

1. The agent has the business contacts to help me find the contract and is a preferred supplier
2. I use the agency to factor my debtors
3. I can get insurance for agency default but not client co default

4. I can concentrate on my core skill of project management without having to worry about sales & marketing, effectively outsourcing it to the agency. Sales & marketing takes about 30-35% of my time allocated to consultancy work, that's almost nil for my contracting work. Worth every penny of the agency margin.
5. Agencies often have direct links to target clients outside of my established contact network. It's at least 100 times harder getting work from a cold call than from an introduction.

[Pacciae]

Firstly I look forward to your full analysis. Secondly I have never said that "people largly use umbrellas out of fear of IR35" as this is simply not true. You seem to forget all those people that just want to work and have no choice but to operate through an umbrella or those that make a positive choice to work through an umbrella. Thirdly it is you that is suggesting those moving out of umbrellas into limited companies are somehow defrauding the government - not me. You must appreciate that there are people who do not see themselves as busnesses or independent freelancers so there cannot be this one size fits all approach. Removal of S44-47 ITEPA 2003 only affects those operating through agencies. There is another argument that asks why would a genuine business want to work for an agency? You simply have to see the bigger picture.

Ms Cottrell your absolutley wrong to say a genuine buiness wouldnt work for an agency.It makes good sence to use a source that can put me in touch with a client. Maybe you would enlighten us to the bigger picture?

[Wanderer]

Dear Malvolio
As always I am happy to respond to your contentions so please begin your deconstruction and allow me to reply.
Kate Cottrell

[mudskipper]

What happened before IR35?

[malvolio]

What happened before IR35?

You could work as a Self-Employed person under Schedule D or use a Limited Company and gt the limited liabilty protections. The problem was that the odd cowboy would simply not pay any tax as an SE and because of S130c (now S44-47 ITEPA 2003) the tax liability goes up to the intermediate - i.e. the agency - rather than down to the worker. Which is stupid, but what it means is that you work through an umbrella or through YourCo to create a corporate separation between you and the agency or else agencies won't deal with you. Or you go PAYE with the agency, which is a horror beyond contemplation even before the AWR kicks in.

Which is why the basic assertion that we incorporate to avoid paying tax is a total load of horsefeathers. We incorporate because it is the most efficient way to work in what is basically a legally distorted market. We've spent 11 years trying to persuade the taxation experts inside and outside HMG of that, and are still trying. Ho hum...

[prozak]

There is another argument that asks why would a genuine business want to work for an agency?

That might be the worst statement I've seen on these boards and that includes the noob posts about what is an expense etc.

to continue the reasons.

6. you find your own work through contacts but the company works through a preferred agency supplier and therefore you must contract through them.

This has happened to me a few times, including my current contract.

[Fred Bloggs]

That might be the worst statement I've seen on these boards and that includes the noob posts about what is an expense etc.

to continue the reasons.

6. you find your own work through contacts but the company works through a preferred agency supplier and therefore you must contract through them.

This has happened to me a few times, including my current contract.

+1.

7. A very cost effective way of factoring your invoices.

8. A very cost efficient way of outsourcing your sales effort.

[Pacciae]

That might be the worst statement I've seen on these boards and that includes the noob posts about what is an expense etc.

to continue the reasons.

6. you find your own work through contacts but the company works through a preferred agency supplier and therefore you must contract through them.

This has happened to me a few times, including my current contract.

I wonder if these self styled IR 35 experts really do understand the contracting market and the people they purport to represent

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

Firstly I look forward to your full analysis. Secondly I have never said that "people largly use umbrellas out of fear of IR35" as this is simply not true. You seem to forget all those people that just want to work and have no choice but to operate through an umbrella or those that make a positive choice to work through an umbrella. Thirdly it is you that is suggesting those moving out of umbrellas into limited companies are somehow defrauding the government - not me. You must appreciate that there are people who do not see themselves as busnesses or independent freelancers so there cannot be this one size fits all approach. Removal of S44-47 ITEPA 2003 only affects those operating through agencies. There is another argument that asks why would a genuine business want to work for an agency? You simply have to see the bigger picture.

[MickeyP]

Bounce. Time for round 2 surely?