BN66 - Court of Appeal and beyond

[bananarepublic]

Now this has resolved itself and demonstrated finally the banana republic this country has become, I refer to my previous post:

"How many frankly laughable judgements will it take until one admits that the courts are part of the overall governmental protection racket and that justice is something people keep wanting to believe is true, but for which there is scant evidence (like honest politicians).

Politicians protect their own and government departments protect their own. You are either part of the state/corporate machine or you are one of the little people. We are not the in-group, we are the out group and we can be treated anyway they d**n well please. Look at the Parliamentary committee hearing for HMRC. It was obviously an incompetent and deceitful cover up and what really happened to anyone involved. NOTHING. A bit of a pantomime telling off from the grumpy headmistress. Accountability? Lets get real here.

Hartnett gets a massive payoff, a big pension and all the other civil servants get back to screwing the rest of the country, with nary a second thought.

You are a cash cow to be milked by the state and that is all that you need to know. Fines for mistakes, fines for not complying with rules that are never clear, ever growing regulations that even full time tax lawyers and accountants are unsure of (but you can be fined or prosecuted over), failure to see legislation as anything other than the will of the state, the state intermediating all your social interactions, time travel legislative powers. That is our present situation and the future holds a whole lot more of the same.

The court is not on your side. You do not appoint judges, nor enoble them, nor control inquiry appointments. Forget that avenue; it is going nowhere, as will appealing to any oversight committees or standards bodies. Its all a sham to make you think there is some restraint on their behaviour. A letter to Santa Claus would be more effective.

There is only one option and that is to write it off and be glad you got away with your liberty intact this time. I for one am off as soon as I can manage it, and HMRC and the govt will have no one to blame but themselves when there are no more productive individuals left to leech off. "

Trouble is, unless you want to live in the desert, behind a high wall or in a tower block where do you go that doesn't have this attitude?

As a point of consolation at least when we stump up it isn't to a government run by McRuin.

[nick4notax]

Are we bu@@ered??

So, what's next? Do we wait on a few test cases and hope cases like Hansard or whatever will result in HMRC losing??? Do we also proceed to ECHR and hope HMRC have to wait on Europe too? I have. I means to pay other than the house I live in. I'm hoping for some positive news from MP and am trying to not second guess our country's seemingly obscure legal system. I can't help thinking that it's still near on impossible for HMRC to succesfully collect using BN66 but am ever fearful of being a test case myself.

Here's to thinking those in New Labour and their HMRC friends who helped think this up, meet with distinct misfortune

[ready_to_leave]

You think HMRC are going to fail to collect this money. They will twist whatever is necessary to get what they see as money that is now rightfully theirs. If you do not have the right connections there is only one outcome.

An excerpt from Machiavelli writing about corruption and injustice seems very appropriate here and fits my view of HMRC and the government very nicely:

"what is most pernicious is to see how the promoters and princes of parties
give decent appearance to their intention and their end with a pious word; for always, although they are all enemies of freedom, they oppress it under color of defending the state either
of the best or of the people. For the prize they desire to gain by victory is not
the glory of having liberated the city but the satisfaction of having overcome
others and having usurped the principality of the city. Having been led to
this point, there is nothing so unjust, so cruel, or mean that they do not dare
to do it."

So, what's next? Do we wait on a few test cases and hope cases like Hansard or whatever will result in HMRC losing??? Do we also proceed to ECHR and hope HMRC have to wait on Europe too? I have. I means to pay other than the house I live in. I'm hoping for some positive news from MP and am trying to not second guess our country's seemingly obscure legal system. I can't help thinking that it's still near on impossible for HMRC to succesfully collect using BN66 but am ever fearful of being a test case myself.

Here's to thinking those in New Labour and their HMRC friends who helped think this up, meet with distinct misfortune

[Toocan]

There is only one option and that is to write it off and be glad you got away with your liberty intact this time. I for one am off as soon as I can manage it, and HMRC and the govt will have no one to blame but themselves when there are no more productive individuals left to leech off. "

You're not the first to decide that: Atlas Shrugged

[BrilloPad]

There is only one option and that is to write it off and be glad you got away with your liberty intact this time. I for one am off as soon as I can manage it, and HMRC and the govt will have no one to blame but themselves when there are no more productive individuals left to leech off. "

I would love to go to Asia - it is where the future is - but I am tied to the UK by a shared custody court order.

[Disgusted of Coventry]

An excerpt from Machiavelli...

"what is most pernicious is to see how the promoters and princes of parties give decent appearance to their intention and their end with a pious word..."

Very fitting!

HMRC have successfully deployed moral judgmentalism as their primary weapon. How ironic!

Like a few other posters, we now need to find out about tax tribunals etc. Can anyone supply any useful links?

[BolshieBastard]

Interesting points. I went to one of the original seminars in the IOM back in 2001. They were very upfront about the possibilities of investigation. Even to the point that it would be expected, if I recall correctly - it was a long time ago! Also about the possibilities of losing.
For a bit of perspective and ignoring interest I don't actually think that I am any worse off than if I had paid IR35 and am certainly better off than if I had been investigated for IR35 after the event and lost. Things were very uncertain on this front in 2001.

That amazing what you have said about MP and totally contradicts what they told me and about 6 other people who attended a 'presentation' in the UK.

They never mentioned possible investigations or that it was 'expected.' In fact, gittins said the opposite. The scheme was a legal loophole, many well known rich people used similar scheme (reference was made to one well known individual who used to sell records and had just got into the airline market).

Mind you, they told me the scheme would only be available to a max 300 contractor so as to keep it low profile. What an eff con.

[Donnie Darko]

There are only 3 options. Take your pick.

1. settle with HMRC and move on (assuming you've got the dosh)
2. leave the country and never return
3. hope and pray that MP can conjure up a miracle

[bananarepublic]

That amazing what you have said about MP and totally contradicts what they told me and about 6 other people who attended a 'presentation' in the UK.

They never mentioned possible investigations or that it was 'expected.' In fact, gittins said the opposite. The scheme was a legal loophole, many well known rich people used similar scheme (reference was made to one well known individual who used to sell records and had just got into the airline market).

Mind you, they told me the scheme would only be available to a max 300 contractor so as to keep it low profile. What an eff con.

I think we need to knock the investigation thing on the head! First of all the schemes only have a certain "shelf live". How on earth do HMRC/government get to close them without doing an investigation first? It they slipped through the net they would go on forever. Also just because you have your affairs investigated it doesn't mean that you have done anything wrong. The investigation I've been under hasn't actually caused me any hassle (well a bit around some partnership accounts) as MP have handled the lot. In fact in this case it may have been a blessing as I wasn't hit with a lot of discovery notices (and those that were have a good case for them to be set aside) and I have been able to mitigate my interest bill (In fact even if I hadn't been under investigation I would still have bought CTD's until such time as the scheme was closed. Didn't trust HMRC then, certainly don't now). So to a certain extent the only way to get closure was for somebody to get investigated. Ok things didn't go to plan in our case granted.

As far as the 300 is concerned. It is true that MP gave this undertaking. Whether we like it or not that they extended the scheme to '000's, it was frankly made immaterial by the fact that other providers got on the bandwagon.

[Toocan]

There are only 3 options. Take your pick.

1. settle with HMRC and move on (assuming you've got the dosh)
2. leave the country and never return
3. hope and pray that MP can conjure up a miracle

NB: There is no advantage of (1). It would be better to buy a Certificate of Tax Deposit instead. This should be for the amount of Income Tax (and possibly NI) that HMRC claim is owed. Once bought the interest is suspended. Should MP/us finally win, you will get your money back. If MP/us finally lose, you will only have the interest part (from due date to date you bought certificate) left to pay.

If you "settle and move on", and MP/the rest of us finally win, then you will get nothing back as you will have accepted that HMRC were right.

Note that HMRC are currently claiming we'll have to pay Income Tax, National Insurance and Interest - there are arguments that each of these should not apply.

Interest is about 23% of total, NI about 15% and IT 61% - each is worth playing for. These numbers depend on when you entered the scheme and turnover during the time.

If one cannot afford the full bill, HMRC suggest that whatever amount can be managed should be "paid on account". I am shocked by this financial advice. What's the point of paying anything if HMRC are going to bankrupt you?