ensuring outside of IR35 status?

**malvolio** · 28 March 2006, 07:58

I really don't know where to start with this one, but just toget you going:

If you haven't yet worked out the truth about IR35, I'm not doing it all again. Read the guides we always tell people to read. Go back over this forum for the last month or so, it'll be in there somewhere.

You are Giant's customer, not the other way round. Ask them about termination, they may have more of an idea of their contracts than you obviously do. Next time you sign something, bloody-well read it and understand it. If that's too hard, do not go independent, you'll screw up.

Giant charge VAT to the client because they add a value to a service. If they weren't in the loop, you would add it to your invoice instead (assuming you're VAT registered). The client won't mind because they reclaim VAT (unless they're a bank) and they would be being charged much the same anyway.

Sits back and waits for next question...

**ratewhore** · 28 March 2006, 11:31

stay on the bench. No IR35 issues there eh?

**flingster** · 28 March 2006, 21:49

yeah bit of a rambling question really. sorry about that.
the whole ir35 thing from the agency point of view was worrying me really...since if you're not falling over offers of contracts i was concerned about amending contract details sent by the client to the agency and then getting them to approve say a substitution clause i may want and them essentially says tough..take it or leave...
now its alright saying leave.. but if you need the contract and the experience i can only see you having to accept since he who pays the piper calls the tune so to speak...i understand alot of the time contracts from agencies already have this in anyway with speaking with a colleague. My approach was more overall as a ltd company..assuming there is a fine line between being inside or outside... but its a line that you need to make clearer to be outside should you be audited/investigated in which case are there any other approaches by being ltd..eg alternative revenue sources eg some other service provision, contracts between contractors for service provision etc.

**malvolio** · 29 March 2006, 08:44

Point 1 - IR35 is a personal tax, worled on each individual contract on its own merits. So while it is a pointer to have multiple streams, it is not necessarily a strong one.

Point 2 - the factors for IR35 are well known (MOO, Substitution and Control). Get those right, contractually, and you should be OK - it won't stop the risk of a three-year investigation, but it should mean you win at the end of it. Hence, get insurance to cover the investigation costs.

Point 3 - if you are running a LtdCo, it's up to you to ensure the best deal. If you are right for the job, it won't disappear while you sort the agency's crao contract out - and if it does, involve the client (won't help but it might give the agency a beating) and look for another role.

**VectraMan** · 29 March 2006, 08:59

Originally posted by flingster

since if you're not falling over offers of contracts i was concerned about amending contract details sent by the client to the agency and then getting them to approve say a substitution clause i may want and them essentially says tough..take it or leave...

I understand the concern, as I'm not exactly flush with offers and if an agency wouldn't budge I'd probably consider an IR35'd income better than none.

**malvolio** · 29 March 2006, 09:14

Well yes, I have to agree 60% of something is better than 80% of bugger-all. But the market is reasonably buoyant at the moment, even if rates in some areas are on the low side. It's always a gamble, isn't it.

**flingster** · 29 March 2006, 21:20

thanks guys you've been a great help...the devil is in the details but sometimes miss because i'm concentrating to much on the various things i need to be thinking about...for you ole hands at it i guess there is less stress involved as you know what its all about. thanks again...food for thought as with rest of forum.

**itwasntme** · 3 April 2006, 16:49

dwindling wedge

Hi all! have just found this website! excellent resource. having gotten away with my mate mikey running my ltd co for the past 14 years (he is now off to Thailand and has left me fending for myslef), I have never had the need to worry about such matters. I was focusing my energies on shuffling text around on a screen and filling in expenses...

anyway...so, what do i do? I really am not responsible enought to run a ltd company. perhaps I could get away with a decent accountant + qdos liability insurance, or perhaps just consider one of these umbrella companies who provide the complete package - ltd company, qdos insurance etc etc.

the latter sounds attractive... what are the advantages of running a ltd company against using a non-ir35 i.e. ir35 safe umbrella company such as actinium (anyone use these guys). Maybe you can gain a little bit more through a ltd company, but for the ease of life...

so my question is, 1) why would I bother again with a ltd company again. 2) any recommendations for an ir35 safe umbrella?

incidentally, I researched the Isle of Man Employee Benefit Trust schemes and thought that thats exactly the sort of scam to keep HMRC busy for a while.

all good.

ensuring outside of IR35 status?