Coming in from the Dark Side....

[malvolio]

I agree with Steve on this one - I have seen nothing to indicate that this legislation will not apply to Limited Company contractors and I also think that many people are being presumptuous in assuming that the regs will have a massive impact on umbrella companies - none of us has seen any guidance notes from the powers that be yet so really all of this is guesswork

I have, albeit nothing I can publish. But the officials drafting the rules have made it clear they intend any genuine in business contractors are to be outside the scope of the regs, which are aimed firmly at anyone in what can be construed as an agency temp or agency employee position. They are concerned about the possibility of tax-avoidance (whatever that is) and how they can identify it and act agsint it, but then again so is IR35.

[Steven@Parasol]

I have, albeit nothing I can publish. But the officials drafting the rules have made it clear they intend any genuine in business contractors are to be outside the scope of the regs, which are aimed firmly at anyone in what can be construed as an agency temp or agency employee position. They are concerned about the possibility of tax-avoidance (whatever that is) and how they can identify it and act agsint it, but then again so is IR35.

For the AWR to be enacted upon then the agency worker has to raise a complaint.

The bottom line for me is (and this is just my view) but effectively a Ltd Company contractor would be bringing the case against their own company,or suing them themself! I'm not so sure this is likely to happen.

[SueEllen]

For the AWR to be enacted upon then the agency worker has to raise a complaint.

The bottom line for me is (and this is just my view) but effectively a Ltd Company contractor would be bringing the case against their own company,or suing them themself! I'm not so sure this is likely to happen.

The company and the person are separate entities. So it would be a case of the contractor bring a case against the other director(s). It would only work if the contractor wasn't a director themselves................

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I have, albeit nothing I can publish. But the officials drafting the rules have made it clear they intend any genuine in business contractors are to be outside the scope of the regs, which are aimed firmly at anyone in what can be construed as an agency temp or agency employee position. They are concerned about the possibility of tax-avoidance (whatever that is) and how they can identify it and act agsint it, but then again so is IR35.

So anyone working through an agency who is inside IR35 (or what HMR&C perceive to be inside IR35)? That will still apply to some contractor limited companies surely?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

For the AWR to be enacted upon then the agency worker has to raise a complaint.

The bottom line for me is (and this is just my view) but effectively a Ltd Company contractor would be bringing the case against their own company,or suing them themself! I'm not so sure this is likely to happen.

Not necessarily - without guidance obviously all of this is supposition - but the claim could be brought against the agency

[Steven@Parasol]

So anyone working through an agency who is inside IR35 (or what HMR&C perceive to be inside IR35)? That will still apply to some contractor limited companies surely?

The feeback we have been getting from BIS is that they have specifically avoided explicitly stating Ltd company contractors are exempt as they are worried that this could open up more loopholes to be exploited by unscrupulous service providers.

[Steven@Parasol]

Not necessarily - without guidance obviously all of this is supposition - but the claim could be brought against the agency

That's where it gets really interesting/confusing (delete as applicable!).

If a Ltd company is providing a worker to fulfill a role for an end client, then as it stands, that Ltd company, in the eyes of the government, will be considered a temporary work agency under the AWR.

[Vallah]

Looks like self employed is the way to go then. I wouldn't want to be somebody in an umbrella scheme trying to get a contract extension after the 12 weeks are up.

[Steven@Parasol]

Looks like self employed is the way to go then. I wouldn't want to be somebody in an umbrella scheme trying to get a contract extension after the 12 weeks are up.

Why?

[original PM]

Entertain me

How are Parasol (or any Umbrella Company) going to be paying people in between contracts?

As far as I am aware the model for Umbrella's works by taking the invoice value, taking your cut, doing some fancy stuff with expenses taking into account minimum wage and then making the payment to the contractor.

Where is the money going to come from to pay people inbetween contracts when they are effectively not earning Parasol any money?

Also on the subject of assiting contractors to find other work you may find you get quite a bit of push back from Hays (for example) if you try and punt contractors recently out of a Hays contract to Computer Futures (for example).