A Health & Safety Reminder - IR35 Consideration

[BolshieBastard]

At financial clients, you often have to complete their money laundering and other financial compliance training. This doesnt affect IR35 and the contractor either as it is something the soon to be abolished FSA deem to be mandatory.

I've just had to do about 6 different ones with my current financial client.

[pmeswani]

If I was investigated by the HMRC, then I'd rather assume that anything I've ever written down can be reviewed by the HMRC, hence my caution.

Er, are you really asking why a desk and PC would be different from a chain saw? Wow. As I explained, my concern was mainly down to my impression that a form regarding the suitability of a workstation in terms of things like the adjustability of chairs, glare from your monitor, etc, seemed like something a permie would have to fill in (after all, they have permanent workstations, I don't).

As long as you are using their equipment, you have to abide by their rules when it comes to Health and Safety. If you don't like their rules, either don't work there, or tell them that you will be bringing your own desk, chair, computer and toilet. HTH.

[the_rangdo]

At financial clients, you often have to complete their money laundering and other financial compliance training. This doesnt affect IR35 and the contractor either as it is something the soon to be abolished FSA deem to be mandatory.

I've just had to do about 6 different ones with my current financial client.

Tell me about it.

6 to do when I joined, then every month a random refresher

Still, they're paying for it.

[GillsMan]

As long as you are using their equipment, you have to abide by their rules when it comes to Health and Safety. If you don't like their rules, either don't work there, or tell them that you will be bringing your own desk, chair, computer and toilet. HTH.

Yeah, because that's exactly the point of my question. Well done for missing the point.

[Mustang]

I'd rather assume that anything I've ever written down can be reviewed by the HMRC

Well they only see what you show them...........if they only see 98% how are they to tell??!

Er, are you really asking why a desk and PC would be different from a chain saw?

I think you are missing the point. I was showing the principle. i.e. if they supply equipment they need to check it is ok and you are using it properly. It may be macho to say 'I'll supply my own' but is it really practical or allowable by the client?

My concern was mainly down to my impression that a form regarding the suitability of a workstation in terms of things like the adjustability of chairs, glare from your monitor, etc, seemed like something a permie would have to fill in (after all, they have permanent workstations, I don't).

Irrespective of that, as an employer yourself, you have a duty to your employees to ensure they are working in a safe environment. Very fortunate that a client is willing to assess this at their expense. You are a 'permie' employed by YourCo!! Keep a record and YourCo is covered too......!!

Agreed all this may be a hassle but in terms of IR35 is it really a big issue? I doubt it!

[Mustang]

The HSE At Work poster (which they probably have on a wall somewhere)

I thought they were legally required to display this if you have over 5 employees....?! Or?

[GillsMan]

Well they only see what you show them...........if they only see 98% how are they to tell??!

Good point. I hadn't even thought of that to be fair.

I think you are missing the point. I was showing the principle. i.e. if they supply equipment they need to check it is ok and you are using it properly. It may be macho to say 'I'll supply my own' but is it really practical or allowable by the client?

It's not really health and safety in the same way that ensuring you can use a chainsaw would be - it's more staff wellment or something like that. But I get what you mean regarding supply of equipment.

Irrespective of that, as an employer yourself, you have a duty to your employees to ensure they are working in a safe environment. Very fortunate that a client is willing to assess this at their expense. You are a 'permie' employed by YourCo!! Keep a record and YourCo is covered too......!!

Agreed all this may be a hassle but in terms of IR35 is it really a big issue? I doubt it!

Great idea, I'm drafting a lengthy form to fill in as we speak to ensure I'm fully aware how to use my desk at home, and I'm aware of the safety implications of using a laptop - and how dangerous it can be.

Seriously though, it was just a case of double-checking. As I say, I'm clearly outside IR35, and just wanted to check this. As much out of curiosity than anything. I totally understand all the points made regarding my client's obligations, so that all makes sense - as I've said a few times, it was merely a case of the form looking like the sort of guff that permies have to fill in. Thanks for setting me straight.

[SueEllen]

It's not really health and safety in the same way that ensuring you can use a chainsaw would be - it's more staff wellment or something like that. But I get what you mean regarding supply of equipment.

It is health and safety.

The Display Screen Regulations are part of the Health and Safety laws as in theory you can sue the client if you are placed in a position where your health is damaged because of how your workstation is set up or what they expect you to do while using them.

Though if your workstation is not set up properly then the worker needs to try and get it rectified as both the worker and employer have responsibilities under the H&S legislation.

To be honest the only incidents I know of where payments have been made out are due to union involvement, and that was due to how the worker was made to work.

[GillsMan]

It is health and safety.

The Display Screen Regulations are part of the Health and Safety laws as in theory you can sue the client if you are placed in a position where your health is damaged because of how your workstation is set up or what they expect you to do while using them.

Though if your workstation is not set up properly then the worker needs to try and get it rectified as both the worker and employer have responsibilities under the H&S legislation.

To be honest the only incidents I know of where payments have been made out are due to union involvement, and that was due to how the worker was made to work.

I didn't actually know that. Think may be I should start taking this sort of thing a little more seriously.

[ASB]

I didn't actually know that. Think may be I should start taking this sort of thing a little more seriously.

Another minor point is that a bunch of regulations tend to use the term "worker". This basically covers anybody.

People quite often go to jail for serious HSE breaches (ok there has usually been a fatality and this is covered by a specific act of parliament). This tends to occur even if the unfortunate victim was quite willingly undertaking the task. Often involves workers rather than staff.