BN66 - Round 2 (Court of Appeal)

[Richard Splash]

…and you must have asked yourself why? Why did HMRC sit on their hands for so long while the tax they could be collecting seeped away? ......

An interesting read Toocan and whilst I have absolutely not time for TB I think this is more the hallmark of the ever intermeddling and devious Mr Brown. Picture the scene - If you were in a position where you knew your past decisions were flawed and that sooner or later things wouuld start to unravel, majestically, like a ruptured golfball on the 18th, then perhaps you'd want to do everything in your power to dull the pain of that rupture. As the jocks say, many a mackle micks a muckle, or as a well known Supermarket chain would say - every little helps.
Whilst I'm sure TB would have said it wasn't worth the political real estate Mr. Brown on the other hand would not have been able to resist. Even as PM he never stopped playing chancellor and what an opportunity this must have been.

Thank god he's disappeared of the radar completely....

[OnYourBikeGB]

I also think we may have an uphill struggle at the Appeal, but I'm not sure how much it matters overall. The only decision that will really count will be the final one, anything up to that point is ammunition gathering. If we are fortunate enough to win at appeal, then I suppose there is a chance that the Government may have some backbone and remove the legislation at that point, but I suspect not. So, look to the horizon with hope, definitely, but be cautious about false dawns. It may be a little far off yet.

[silver_lining]

Cautiously optimistic

Guys,

We do need to prepare for any outcome, as DR keeps reminding us, but keep positive.

I personally feel we need to score a round at the COA, as 2 rounds lost in a row is not good in the broader scheme of things; particularly for anyone financing litigation. It also depends on how we lose if were to lose in the COA. If its a 'bad' loss in the COA, one would seriously have to consider your options for success in the future.

I personally hope we get a strong WIN or get kicked out of court, no middle ground as anything in between will probably be the nail in coffin for me and would consider my options.

But as it stands - I am still optimistic of a good result in COA, as I have no respect for the conclusions drawn by Parker in HC, bad bad bad.

SL

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Guys,

We do need to prepare for any outcome, as DR keeps reminding us, but keep positive.

I personally feel we need to score a round at the COA, as 2 rounds lost in a row is not good in the broader scheme of things; particularly for anyone financing litigation. It also depends on how we lose if were to lose in the COA. If its a 'bad' loss in the COA, one would seriously have to consider your options for success in the future.

I personally hope we get a strong WIN or get kicked out of court, no middle ground as anything in between will probably be the nail in coffin for me and would consider my options.

But as it stands - I am still optimistic of a good result in COA, as I have no respect for the conclusions drawn by Parker in HC, bad bad bad.

SL

If you google our case, most tax professionals think we will lose in the CoA. However, as Arctic demonstrates, the courts can throw up surprises and none of the commentators at the time expected the CoA to completely overturn the decision of the High Court.

It truly baffles me that 2 courts can reach totally opposite conclusions on the same issue but the fact is it happens on a regular basis.

Our chances may not be great but it is not hopeless either.

[GottaBeOptimistic]

After the COA ?

Hi all,

long time lurker here. I keep following this thread for updates and information about the ongoing case and the information posted is really useful.

I have a question regarding the outcome of the COA. IR have already stated that they will not pursue the collections until this has run it's course in the courts. Do we know if their intention is to stick to this up until the COA has given a decision or all the way to the European court ?

Also, if we lose in the COA, is the next step the high court and if so any indications on timing ?

regards,
GottaBeOptimistic

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Hi all,

long time lurker here. I keep following this thread for updates and information about the ongoing case and the information posted is really useful.

I have a question regarding the outcome of the COA. IR have already stated that they will not pursue the collections until this has run it's course in the courts. Do we know if their intention is to stick to this up until the COA has given a decision or all the way to the European court ?

Also, if we lose in the COA, is the next step the high court and if so any indications on timing ?

regards,
GottaBeOptimistic

Hi and thanks for delurking.

My understanding is that HMRC have agreed not to enforce collection until the entire legal process has run its course. Politically, I don't think they would even dare attempt anything while any appeal is pending, especially with so many people unable to pay.

If we lose in the CoA, the next logical step would be to appeal to the Supreme Court (formerly HoL).

The CoA may grant us leave to appeal, or more likely we will have to apply to the SC. My guess is we wouldn't get a hearing in the SC until late next year, possibly early 2012.

PwC have indicated that their case could be referred by the CoA directly to the ECJ but we will just have to see how this plays out.

[Donnie Darko]

Another long term lurker coming out of the shadows.

My situation in a nutshell is if we lose I've had it. Don't have anywhere near enough in savings and other half has already said it's the end of the road if we lose the house. I joined the scheme in the early years, so the interest is already over half as much again.

Some seem to be taking comfort from the prospect it could drag on for a few years, I just see it as living with a sword of damocles hanging over my head.

As the song from the film goes...

All around me are familiar faces
Worn out places, worn out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere

And their tears are filling up their glasses
No expression, no expression
Hide my head I want to drown my sorrow
No tommorow, no tommorow

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
Because I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very
Mad world
Mad world
Mad world
Mad world

Don't suppose anyone knows how to create a wormhole do they?

[smalldog]

Another long term lurker coming out of the shadows.

My situation in a nutshell is if we lose I've had it. Don't have anywhere near enough in savings and other half has already said it's the end of the road if we lose the house. I joined the scheme in the early years, so the interest is already over half as much again.

Some seem to be taking comfort from the prospect it could drag on for a few years, I just see it as living with a sword of damocles hanging over my head.

As the song from the film goes...

All around me are familiar faces
Worn out places, worn out faces
Bright and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere

And their tears are filling up their glasses
No expression, no expression
Hide my head I want to drown my sorrow
No tommorow, no tommorow

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
Because I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very
Mad world
Mad world
Mad world
Mad world

Don't suppose anyone knows how to create a wormhole do they?

im sure you will sleep easier knowing HMRC take hardship into account, yeh right....assume that means they give you a couple of months to pay rather than two weeks!!! bsatards

[smalldog]

im sure you will sleep easier knowing HMRC take hardship into account, yeh right....assume that means they give you a couple of months to pay rather than two weeks!!! bsatards

if anyone is interested and not that we are here yet but:

Applications to the tribunal: Hardship applications

Reviews and appeals for indirect taxes: Payment of tax pending the outcome: Hardship applications

Reviews and appeals for indirect taxes: Payment of tax pending the outcome: Security instead of payment

so there is a hardship process

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Another long term lurker coming out of the shadows.

My situation in a nutshell is if we lose I've had it. Don't have anywhere near enough in savings and other half has already said it's the end of the road if we lose the house. I joined the scheme in the early years, so the interest is already over half as much again.

Some seem to be taking comfort from the prospect it could drag on for a few years, I just see it as living with a sword of damocles hanging over my head.

Thanks for delurking and sorry to hear about your situation.

The only comfort people are taking from it being protracted is that it gives them time to save.

However, there are many people I speak to who will never even be able to come close to making up the deficit and they can't see the point in scrimping and saving for the next few years just to hand over the cash to HMRC.

I know it's difficult but try to make the best of your life. We have no control over the outcome of the legal process, so there is little point worrying about it.

Take care,
DR