BN66 - Round 2 (Court of Appeal)

[TaxDude]

There are only 3 weeks until the budget.

Yes, it is a longshot but what have we got to lose?

You don't need to contact me for the letter, as I have now made it available for download here:

http://wimg.co.uk/kDl.doc

I am working behind the scenes to get this out to as many scheme users as possible.

Don't think about it. Just send it!

Hi Dr

Letter to Mr Osborne sent and emailed .... fingers crossed somebody takes up our case

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Follow-up letter

It is clear from the responses we are getting, that the Government firmly believes s.58 was wrong in principle.

The main stumbling block is this:

I am afraid that, with the public finances in the state they are, new Treasury ministers are unable to make any firm promises to reverse this legislation...

We are preparing a reply to this. There isn't much time to get this to Ministers, so we need to act quickly.

Is everyone up for sending a follow-up letter?

[GavM]

It is clear from the responses we are getting, that the Government firmly believes s.58 was wrong in principle.

The main stumbling block is this:



We are preparing a reply to this. There isn't much time to get this to Ministers, so we need to act quickly.

Is everyone up for sending a follow-up letter?

Not had a reply from my last letter yet

[helen7]

The main stumbling block is this:

We are preparing a reply to this. There isn't much time to get this to Ministers, so we need to act quickly.

Is everyone up for sending a follow-up letter?

Of course!

It is worth pointing out that they probably will not raise very much money from this. A lot of people can't / won't pay. Add to that the legal costs and the fact that most people left financial ruined by this will be forced to live off benefits.

[Kevthered]

It is clear from the responses we are getting, that the Government firmly believes s.58 was wrong in principle.

The main stumbling block is this:



We are preparing a reply to this. There isn't much time to get this to Ministers, so we need to act quickly.

Is everyone up for sending a follow-up letter?

Definitely. If enough of us write in they may realise they are actually dealing with REAL people who have an awful lot to lose

[smalldog]

It is clear from the responses we are getting, that the Government firmly believes s.58 was wrong in principle.

The main stumbling block is this:



We are preparing a reply to this. There isn't much time to get this to Ministers, so we need to act quickly.

Is everyone up for sending a follow-up letter?

But hold on one cotton picking minute, just because the government doesnt have any money that is not a justification for keeping something in place thats wrong.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

But hold on one cotton picking minute, just because the government doesnt have any money that is not a justification for keeping something in place thats wrong.

That is the thrust of the follow-up letter. There are 3 central arguments to rebut this.

Argument 1

Justice should not be overriden on financial grounds. As you say, if it's wrong, it's wrong full stop.

Argument 2

Only a portion of the hypothetical tax+interest is collectable. Even partial collection will result in people losing their homes, bankruptcy etc.

Argument 3

The previous government introduced this on the basis that it wasn't a change in the law, and HMRC have always maintained that the scheme never worked.

Jane Kennedy in the debate:

"the Government consider that the law already defeats the scheme"

"The Government do not accept that the clause changes the meaning of the law."

If this is the case, then repealing s.58 doesn't change anything, and HMRC can take us to court on the basis of the old law to collect the money.

QED.

[smalldog]

That is the thrust of the follow-up letter. There are 3 central arguments to rebut this.

Argument 1

Justice should not be overriden on financial grounds. As you say, if it's wrong, it's wrong full stop.

Argument 2

Only a portion of the hypothetical tax+interest is collectable. Even partial collection will result in people losing their homes, bankruptcy etc.

Argument 3

The previous government introduced this on the basis that it wasn't a change in the law, and HMRC have always maintained that the scheme never worked.



If this is the case, then repealing s.58 doesn't change anything, and HMRC can take us to court on the basis of the old law to collect the money.

QED.

just on the basis of the above argument 3 DR I dont see how on earth the court of appeal will find in their favour. IT just wouldnt make any sense

[DonkeyRhubarb]

just on the basis of the above argument 3 DR I dont see how on earth the court of appeal will find in their favour. IT just wouldnt make any sense

I agree with you but, as we already know, the courts can spring nasty surprises.

Also, it may be wrong but it was passed by Parliament. Parliamentary supremecy is not something the courts take lightly.

That's why, as some have commented, this won't get proper scrutiny until it reaches the Supreme Court or Europe.

Now, if the Government were to issue a statement now saying they believed it was wrong in principle but they couldn't do anything because of the budget deficit...

...this would send a signal that "justice comes at a price", which the courts could hardly ignore.

[patbikeruk]

yes - followup letter

Yes

It is clear from the responses we are getting, that the Government firmly believes s.58 was wrong in principle.

The main stumbling block is this:



We are preparing a reply to this. There isn't much time to get this to Ministers, so we need to act quickly.

Is everyone up for sending a follow-up letter?