Crunch

[Maslins]

I agree. Contractors require an Accountant (unless of course you choose to do it all yourself). The bookkeeping package used by the Accountant is really neither here nor there provided it is functional. You can enter figures in on a spreadsheet or you can fill them in on line - the point being, you are still entering the figures somewhere!

There are many on line bookkeeping packages available such as Crunch and FreeAgent, but to my mind I can't see why you would pay on on going monthly fee for the software when you can pop down to WH Smiths and buy Sage Instant accounts for £89, or indeed use our spreadsheet for nothing!

For your typical contractor with 1 client that presumably pays like clockwork, I completely agree. The books will be simple, so a very basic bookkeeping system combined with someone who knows their stuff on the other end of the phone/email is perfect.

...but I want to step in and big up FreeAgent, most people I know who have moved to it love it. Reasons why they do:

• If you use online banking, you can upload your statements and explain transactions via drop down menus, so it's much quicker to enter data and no risk of typos when inputting figures. Also means less risk of missing transactions/bank not reconciling.

• It hands you your VAT figures on a plate, enabling more confident/thrifty clients to reduce their accountancy fees by doing all but the year end work themselves.

• It helps with invoicing, billing based upon time, and keeping track of who owes you what (admittedly more useful with mutliple clients/irregular work).

• If a client's confused about how to use it, their accountant can bring up exactly the same screen in front of them, to help explain how it works.

Also, if your accountant supports it, typically the monthly cost of the software is absorbed by them, and included in their total monthly fee. So from the client's point of view the software is essentially provided for free.

FreeAgent make a real point of stressing they don't replace your accountant, just try to make life easier for you and your accountant.

(in case anyone's read this far and wondering re the whole accountantmarketinggate, I do not work for FreeAgent, nor benefit from clients using it independently of us. It is simply a package we regularly work with, in the same way many accountants work with Sage/whatever).

[northernladuk]

I made the same points for all the accountants that post on this board, turning it into a marketing site...

Hmm I would go as far at say that. I do dislike it when someone blatently sells their service in a thread (like this one blatently does) but most of the guys help us out greatly by answering our questions with no hint of the hard sell. If people like Maslins and SJ can answer a question on this forum that help us all without a sell and gets some non-touted business from it then go for it.

[ratewhore]

Hmm I would go as far at say that. I do dislike it when someone blatently sells their service in a thread (like this one blatently does) but most of the guys help us out greatly by answering our questions with no hint of the hard sell. If people like Maslins and SJ can answer a question on this forum that help us all without a sell and gets some non-touted business from it then go for it.

I see more value in the experiences of the contractors. Like I've said elsewhere, each time I see an accountant tell an existing client on this board, 'call me, I'll sort your problem out for you', it's too late. Also, there are LOTS of threads asking for advice on accountants. As a contractors website, I would expect to see contractors stating their experiences and making their recommendations, not the accountants themselves giving it the old 'I can do that for the fee of £x per month'.

Maybe I'm just getting irritable in my old age...

[northernladuk]

I see more value in the experiences of the contractors. Like I've said elsewhere, each time I see an accountant tell an existing client on this board, 'call me, I'll sort your problem out for you', it's too late. Also, there are LOTS of threads asking for advice on accountants. As a contractors website, I would expect to see contractors stating their experiences and making their recommendations, not the accountants themselves giving it the old 'I can do that for the fee of £x per month'.

Maybe I'm just getting irritable in my old age...

LOL I think it's more like I am having a good day as I would probably be my miserable self and agree with you.

Thing is experiences are ok but when someone is asking a question about accounts I would much rather see the answer from someone that (is supposed to) know what they are talking about rather than chancing it with advice from people who have had a dabble in this area. Generally your right, advice is spot on and well put but there have been some right chumps on posting tulip recently. I should know, I have a feeling I have been one of them once too many times. A little knowlege is a dangerous thing!

[stevehearsum]

Interesting discussion, and for what it is worth, my thoughts are these...

I have been freelance for 8 years, both as a contractor and/or consultant on shorter engagements. I switched to Crunch last year, and for several reasons. Firstly, and in the interests of disclosure, I have known Darren Fell for several years, and I was Crunch's first paying customer. Why did I sign up? I had a very good accountant after all. In no particular order:

1. Save money - so far, I have done. The accounting advice I received has been excellent, on issues ranging from VAT through to tax and mundane expenses queries.
2. Reduce admin - I am PC and spreadsheet literate. And I still felt it could still be done more efficiently. Crunch is easy to use, without dumbing down the functionality. Bottom line: I could buy Sage, or use a free spreadsheet, but my practice revolves round organisational consulting. It is worth the money to free my time up to do what i do best.
3. Access to accountant at the end of the phone - picking up the comments from others, sometimes I talk to account handlers, sometimes to accountants. Quite frankly, I do not care which so long as the advice is accurate and timely. To date, it has been.
4. Switching to Ltd company - I had been a sole trader, and for a variety of reasons decided this was appropriate for me. Could not have been easier.

What has not been good? Not much really. It works, it gets better as new functionality comes on line, and, a clincher for me, when there are issues with the system (it is relatively new) the way they handle them is exemplary. That marks out the good from the bad in my experience.

Do I think it is the best thing out there? I do not know, not looked into it that much, and for me this was a commercial decision, pure and simple. If something better/more cost effective comes along I would look at it. For now, and for what I get for my money, I am happy.

Steve

[lje]

You know - normally I'm not a grumpy person(!). But does anyone else find it odd that after people complained that Crunch were advertising directly on here and that people would rather hear direct from contractors themselves we get two posts from two different contractors praising Crunch and that neither of those contractors has ever posted here before?

If I was being cynical I'd say that Crunch created a couple of new users and posted as contractors to make themselves look good. Even if that's not the case, at the very least they've obviously gone to their existing customers and asked them to come here and tell us how great they are.

Guys - you need to learn to be more subtle with your marketing. It'll only put us off. Come on here and help us out when we have questions about accountancy and some people will think you're golly helpful chaps and you might get some business. But don't come here and sell to us. I for one will never use your services just because you've annoyed me on this thread.

[simondolan]

Interesting discussion, and for what it is worth, my thoughts are these...

I have been freelance for 8 years, both as a contractor and/or consultant on shorter engagements.
4. Switching to Ltd company - I had been a sole trader, and for a variety of reasons decided this was appropriate for me.
Steve

hmmmm - so you worked as a sole trader whilst a contractor? Through an agency?

[simondolan]

each time I see an accountant tell an existing client on this board, 'call me, I'll sort your problem out for you', it's too late.

Surely though better than not bothering at all, or hiding behind customer service reps or pseudonyms?

[TheFaQQer]

or indeed use our spreadsheet for nothing!

I do

[stevehearsum]

You know - normally I'm not a grumpy person(!). But does anyone else find it odd that after people complained that Crunch were advertising directly on here and that people would rather hear direct from contractors themselves we get two posts from two different contractors praising Crunch and that neither of those contractors has ever posted here before?

If I was being cynical I'd say that Crunch created a couple of new users and posted as contractors to make themselves look good. Even if that's not the case, at the very least they've obviously gone to their existing customers and asked them to come here and tell us how great they are.

Guys - you need to learn to be more subtle with your marketing. It'll only put us off. Come on here and help us out when we have questions about accountancy and some people will think you're golly helpful chaps and you might get some business. But don't come here and sell to us. I for one will never use your services just because you've annoyed me on this thread.

For starters, I exist. Do a search for me on-line, or go to my website www.deboxing.co.uk. As to why I posted: Darren sent me the URL to the thread, and asked me what i thought. I chose to post, was not paid to, and am nobody's poodle. Feel free to engage me in debate, by all means, do not assume I lack free will

Steve