BN66 - JR Judgement Day

[malvolio]

Not many people can honestly make that claim. What do you think will happen next? I mean, how do you think events will play out?

Hey, I'm not that smart.

So far we've been working on the realms of "Is BN66 supportable in the context of the intended legislation". From here on, we get into the question of "Have these people's Human Rights been affected by BN66" which is a whole other ball game.

[poppy01]

Which only shows you still don't understand the whole picture. Heigh ho...

just f**k off you patronising c**t. i'm sick of your bullsh*t. i'm going to lose my house and you come on here spouting your cr*p and taking the p*ss.

[johnnyguitar]

looks like it catching on...

Stars face massive payback demands as HMRC probes
£2bn film tax loophole

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e.html?ITO=170

[Toocan]

Hey, I'm not that smart.

So far we've been working on the realms of "Is BN66 supportable in the context of the intended legislation". From here on, we get into the question of "Have these people's Human Rights been affected by BN66" which is a whole other ball game.

It sounds like you have swallowed the HMRC line whole.

You appear to be assuming that whether the scheme that is being discissed here works or not turns exclusively on the human rights question. That's not the case.

We're not even at the conclusion of your first question, never mind your second. This has a long way to go and I don't believe it is certain in the way you imply.

As I've said before, everyone should plan for the worst and hope for the best - then let the people who know what they are talking about deal with it.

The purpose of this forum is to support those how have used the scheme in a practical and helpful way. There are a lot of people reading it and I suppose that's why we get people who want an audience visiting (it blows me why they always seem to have the same forename).

All I can say to you, is spare a thought for people who are not as clever as you. Your spurt of satisfaction may be tipping someone over the edge. Spare a thought.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

References

Corrian asked about background material on the legislation. Here is everything I have collected over the past 2 years.

March 2008
Announcement of legislation in Budget Note 66 on 12th March 2008
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2008/bn66.pdf

April 2008
John Whiting memorandum to the Treasury Committee (RETROSPECTION)
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...30/430we03.htm

Treasury Committee 9th Report – The 2008 Budget (Double Taxation Treaties)
http://www.parliament.the-stationery.../43009.htm#a48

CIOT Memorandum to the House of Lords (Clause 55, page 4)
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/CIOT.pdf

May 2008
ICAEW Parliamentary briefing on Clause 55
http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route...ga/en/Home/pdf

Parliamentary debate on Clause 55 (later to become Section 58)
http://www.publications.parliament.u...m/80522s03.htm
http://www.publications.parliament.u...m/80522s04.htm
http://www.publications.parliament.u...m/80522s01.htm
http://www.publications.parliament.u...m/80522s02.htm

June 2008
Government response to the Treasury Committee (item 27 on last page)
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...sy/689/689.pdf

Letter from Chartered Institute of Taxation to the Treasury
http://www.tax.org.uk/attach.pl/7249...inal040608.pdf

July 2008
Response from Jane Kennedy to the CIOT.
http://www.tax.org.uk/attach.pl/7249...nedy080708.pdf

May 2009
Parliamentary question from David Drew MP.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/...5-20c.276192.h

July 2009
Joint Committee on Human Rights report on Section 58
http://www.publications.parliament.u...3/13304.htm#a5

JCHR approach to retrospective tax legislation (see point 1.7)
http://www.publications.parliament.u...3/13304.htm#a2

Letter from JCHR to Treasury Minister Stephen Timms
http://www.publications.parliament.u...3/13308.htm#a6

September 2009
Parliamentary question from Willie Rennie MP.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/...9-16a.289115.h

November 2009
Parliamentary question from Damien Green MP.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/...1-11c.297608.h

December 2009
Response from Stephen Timms to JCHR, and further correspondence.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...ts/21/2108.htm

[Toocan]

Stars face massive payback demands as HMRC probes
£2bn film tax loophole

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e.html?ITO=170

Interesting story. Did you notice the fact pattern?

• A set of rules (‘a scheme’) are introduced (effectively by HMRC, HMT if you prefer, and Parliament if you want to be precise) which permits a saving of tax.
• HMRC realise that the rules are flawed – people are able to claim more than HMRC though they should (‘fairness’)
• HMRC [think they] close down the flaws in the rules
• HMRC go after those who correctly applied their ‘flawed’ rules

Seems familiar some how…

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Why didn't HMRC act sooner?

In the light of this bulletin sent out to tax offices, why was the scheme allowed to continue for another 6 years?

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...Issue%2063.pdf

• Date - July 2002
• Explains exactly how the scheme operates
• "We are considering how best to challenge the scheme"
• "We know that several hundred IoM trusts have been set up"
• will appear on SA returns from 2001-2 onwards

What on earth were they doing 2002 to 2008?

[Toocan]

In the light of this bulletin sent out to tax offices, why was the scheme allowed to continue for another 6 years?

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...Issue%2063.pdf

• Date - July 2002
• Explains exactly how the scheme operates
• "We are considering how best to challenge the scheme"
• "We know that several hundred IoM trusts have been set up"
• will appear on SA returns from 2001-2 onwards

What on earth were they doing 2002 to 2008?

I called HMRC in December of 2002 to get some advice on PAYE. The man I spoke to could barely be heard and when I asked him to repeat himself he apologised and told me he was eating a mince pie. I think this answers your question as to what HMRC were doing between 2002 and 2008 – they were eating mince pies when they should have been working.

I kid you not.

[malvolio]

All I can say to you, is spare a thought for people who are not as clever as you. Your spurt of satisfaction may be tipping someone over the edge. Spare a thought.

Fair point, and I apologise to any who have taken it the wrong way. Sometimes I get too wrapped up in the theory.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Fair point, and I apologise to any who have taken it the wrong way. Sometimes I get too wrapped up in the theory.

Thanks.

I wouldn't go as far as poppy in saying "we're screwed now" but I don't think anyone is under any illusions now that we are facing a huge uphill battle.

One consolation is at least if it drags on for a few years it might give people time to get their finances in better shape. I would hate to see anyone lose their home over this.